Wombs for rent, ten bucks a day

Knee-jerk reaction laws intended to placate minorities usually incurs collateral damage. But unintended consequences cannot and should not be excused when it comes to fulfilling irresponsible dreams for parenthood. Children are not puppies to be returned to the pet shop when they become inconvenient. Their minds and bodies are a lifetime commitment. GC.Ed.

One aspect of proposed same-sex marriage legislation is slowly percolating into the room like the smell that nobody admits to.
The fact is that homosexual males who want to be fathers need a young woman to be a surrogate mother.
Where will these women come from?
There is another kind of legislation or law at work here – the Law of Supply and Demand – a law that applied before the Egyptians, and which has never been repealed. And the answer to the question is – wherever the wombs are cheapest.
Of course, there are other aspects – there has to be good medical attention, state-of-the-art gynecological services.
Of course, of course.
And there is a place where the wombs are cheapest, where doctors are
available, where laws are elastic.
India.
They may have a s’house cricket team, but they have doctors experienced in IVF – and millions and millions of impoverished young women.
The surrogate motherhood industry in India is worth well over $2 billion
a year, and growing.

The users of the industry from the west pay one-fifth the cost they would pay in England or the US or Australia to have the mother carry the child.
The mum gets about $2000 to $4000, depending on what organisers can bargain for.
There is no mention in the stats of what happens if the child is born blind, or with Down’s Syndrome. The guess is that the ‘problem’ is detected
early and the baby disposed of. Which means that the young mother can try again – maybe.
It is reported that at least some of the IVF clinics are preparing for an increase in demand when legislation in the US and Australia and Israel comes into force which gives homosexuals full adoption rights.
Although it can, and is, done now, there is a kind of delay because the
homosexuals seem to be waiting for a redefinition of “marriage”. A
spokesman for the Fertility Institutes of Las Vegas and Los Angeles
which uses American women as surrogates reports that every time there is
agitation in the press for homosexual marriage, his phone bill goes up.
So much that he advises that they are seriously thinking of cost-cutting and outsourcing the job of surrogacy.
To Mexico.
Where there are a lot of poor young women as well.
Another unreported issue is how the young women feel about the fact that their baby girl or baby boy will be brought up in a homosexual household.
Of course, with modern enlightened views, and clear recognition that
liberal philosophy is here to stay, and anti-discrimination laws, and school curriculums that teach the normalcy of homosexual relations, it
is expected that the Indian and Mexican girls will be very happy with
the forward-looking new-age attitudes in this issue, and will not raise
the slightest objection, or have the least misgivings.
Especially since they can make up to $3000 for taking on what can be a risky and dangerous job.
Maternal deaths in childbirth in the west range from 3.0 per 100,000
(Italy) to 17 per 100,000 (US). Australia is 5 per 100,000.
The figure for India is 250 per 100,000.
That is an average, of course, and not in the IVF clinics. It is perfectly safe there.
Of course, of course.

im McCrudden is a retired lawyer, an avid admirer of Dickens, Shakespeare and many others. He lives on the NSW South Coast, has a keen interest in politics and sits on local government.

Comments

[bushwanker]

1.

It’s an absolute abomination that a homosexual couple can pay for a child that they can then rear (no pun intended) and no doubt bring the child up in a homosexual environment with the child then conditined to thinking that homosexuality is normal.

I have no problem with homosexuals doing whatever they do in the privacy of their own homes but when it impacts on the social fibre of future generations, I draw the line.

Homosexual relationships should not be sanctified by traditional marriage nor should they be able to procure a child into their questionable way of life by surrogacy.

Islam is a backward barbaric religion but they have it right when it comes to their attitude towards homosexuals.

[Philip Lillingston]

2.

Although the author Jim (presumably not im) McCrudden details what is happening with regards to surrogate child bearing, he does not specify what is actually fundamentally wrong.
If it is the surrogacy itself then why? If the Indian women only do it for a few thousand then presumably that to them is still a lot of money, apparently taking the risk into account. It is still their body. We should deny them the right because we, here in the west, feel some undefined abhorrence about the process?
If it is about homosexual parenting then is it better for an entity to have never lived than to spend its first 17 years of life in an homosexual environment?

[Allan]

3.

Phillip, how abut this as a talking point?

The union of a hetrosexual couple, usually by marriage but not necessarily so, is basically about personal/sexual gratification and pro-creation. On the other hand homosexual unions are only about personal and sexual gratification and adoption via surrogacy is an attempt to use their version of parenthood as a means of legitimising their unnatural union.

[pk]

4.

So is this all okay if the couple in question are an infertile hetrosexual couple?

[bushwanker]

5.

It would be OK by me.

The child would be brought up in a normal heterosexual environment with a mother and a father albeit not necessarilly the natural mother and or father.
I take on board and agree with the comments by Allan that there is a fear that homosexuals who are driven to prove to themselves and perhaps others that their relationships are normal may use the child to legitimise their union.
Again I emphasise I have no problem with what homosexuals do in the privacy of their homes which is an individual's freedom but I am dead against populist social experiments that may impact the moral fibre of future generations.
If male couples or female couples were meant to bear and nurture children, nature & natural selection would have given them the equipment to do so.

[Rumplestilskin]

6.

I think what is throwing you is that Jim is telling it as it is, and drawing attention to the question of the redefinition of marriage.
It is another aspect of that question.
And apparently there will be an acceleration of surrogacy for homosexual couples. Is that in the best interest of the child?
If we have to give away our pets we always specify a "good home" so
presumably the young Indian mother cares that the child she carries will go to a good home too. Will there be psychological damage?
Jim has left some unsettling issues for the readers.

[Allan]

7.

pk, a hetrosexual union is a legitmate and natural union and the fact that one or both partners is incapable of reproducing doesn't alter that. Providing such couples the opportunity to participate in a family unit where a child is brought up in a natural father/mother environment is what I believe surrogacy and IVF are meant to do.

I think the question here is, is surrogacy or IVF being used to provide children to homosexual couples ethically and/or morally acceptable and has sufficient consideration been given to the psychological affects on a developing mind.

[Lucretia Borgia]

8.

Who cares what the parents sexual preferences are, as long as they are NOT aligned to the the Vaticans catholic paedophilia ring!

[pk]

9.

So the fact that these surrogate mother's are basically this century's wet nurses, providing babies for white westerners at a cut price rate, is fine with you just as long as the baby in question has a mummy and daddy? Funny how selective you are - one girl raised by two fathers with all the support and love in the world = a tragedy. One girl raised in poverty who can only use her body in a physically and mentally punishing process to try to eek out of a doom laden future with no guarantees = a simple business transaction.

[Bushwanker]

10.

Your statement 'one girl raised by two fathers with all the support and love in the world' brings the hairs up on the back of my neck.
I would have concerns for the welfare of that child and I would bet most child welfare workers would see a red flag also.

[Garry Nosworthy]

11.

You live under a toadstool if you think the Catholic church is the only place you will find paedophiles. I suspect you will find more of them in the male homosexual community than anywhere else. No doubt the Catholic church has their share of male homosexuals who are also paedophiles.

[Allan]

12.

pk, two things. The first is that I didn't make a statement in relation to homosexual parenting, I expressed my opinion in relation to my understanding of surrogacy and IVF. However, what I did do was pose a question that you have completely ignored.

The second is that males are not allowed to sit next to unaccompanied children on an aeroplane in full view other passengers and men talking to unaccompanied children, especially girls, on the street raises concerns by some, but you seem to believe that it is OK for a young girl to be raised by two males in an unnatural homosexual relationship.

[Allan]

13.

pk, I wonder if you have been living down a hole somewhere. Surrogacy is not something that was dreamed up in "this century". It has been going on since time immemorial. In most countries it is an accepted practice so long as it is done for the right reasons.

[bushwanker]

14.

To all the supporters of homosexual parenting which includes you pk, here is just one example of the lunacy that goes on in the world.

What chance has this child got to lead a normal balanced life when the parent is a few slices short of a loaf. Here is the kids mother (I assume birth mother) who wanted to be a man so he he had all the hormone treatment and breast reduction surgery but still had his/her/his?? baby making equipment and now he wants to be a nursing mother. Read the article for yourselves.

http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/team-mom/transgendered-man--trevor-macdonald--garners-mixed-reactions-after-rejected-as-leader-of-breastfeeding-group-.html

[oldman]

15.

Your statement 'one girl raised by two fathers with all the support and love in the world' brings the hairs up on the back of my neck.

I know three families where the parents are of the same sex and the children have grown up to be happy, intelligent and well rounded young adults. Concentrate on living your own life rather than wanting to lives of others as well as your own.

[bushwanker]

16.

Tell me oldman, are the parents male or female?

In a society, all members of the society need to contribute to the wellbeing of the society and if that means being proactive on long term social issues so be it.
Based on your advice, if a citizen was to witness to an act of child abuse or even potential child abuse they should say nothing and do nothing, in your words "Concentrate on living your own life rather than wanting to lives of others as well as your own".

As I said before, I could not give a rats arse what homosexuals do to themselves but where children and the future direction of society and it's morals are at risk then I certainly have a right and a responsibility to say something and if necessary, do something, i.e. be proactive.

[bushwanker]

17.

I would also draw your attention to the comment by Allan (12)
"The second is that males are not allowed to sit next to unaccompanied children on an aeroplane in full view other passengers and men talking to unaccompanied children, especially girls, on the street raises concerns by some, but you seem to believe that it is OK for a young girl to be raised by two males in an unnatural homosexual relationship"

Do you wish to put the homosexual case for this reality?

[oldman]

18.

Based on your advice, if a citizen was to witness to an act of child abuse or even potential child abuse they should say nothing and do nothing

I said no such thing and I know of no cases where same sex parents have abused the children in their care. I'm sure if you look hard enough, you can find something through google to justify your narrow-minded claims but for every single abuse you find I am sure I can find a thousand hetero examples.

Stop being a busybody that you are and perhaps others will stop seeing you as the sad grumble-bum you are.

[bushwanker]

19.

I will loose no sleep over you labeling me as a busybody.

I note you choose not to answer my question, ' Tell me oldman, are the parents male or female'

and in the last post in reference to the very relevant statements by Allan(12). I take it that you have no defence.

[Allan]

20.

G'Day Bush. Flicking through information in relation to same sex relationships and child rearing I came across this account from a young bloke who grew up in a lesbian household. The paper it came from was peer reviewed so I suppose it does have some authority.

Robert Lopez was raised by two lesbians. Here, he reveals how damaging this experience is.

by Robert Lopez
(Abridged by henrymakow.com from THE PUBLIC DISCOURSE)

"Quite simply, growing up with gay parents was very difficult, and not because of prejudice from neighbors. ... When your home life is so drastically different from everyone around you, in a fundamental way striking at basic physical relations, you grow up weird.

I have no mental health disorders or biological conditions. I just grew up in a house so unusual that I was destined to exist as a social outcast.

My peers learned all the unwritten rules of decorum and body language in their homes; they understood what was appropriate to say in certain settings and what wasn't; they learned both traditionally masculine and traditionally feminine social mechanisms.

Even if my peers' parents were divorced, and many of them were, they still grew up seeing male and female social models. They learned, typically, how to be bold and unflinching from male figures and how to write thank-you cards and be sensitive from female figures.

These are stereotypes, of course, but stereotypes come in handy when you inevitably leave the safety of your lesbian mom's trailer and have to work and survive in a world where everybody thinks in stereotypical terms, even gays.

nuc2.jpgI had no male figure at all to follow, and my mother and her partner were both unlike traditional fathers or traditional mothers. As a result, I had very few recognizable social cues to offer potential male or female friends, since I was neither confident nor sensitive to others.

Thus I befriended people rarely, and alienated others easily. Gay people who grew up in straight parents' households may have struggled with their sexual orientation; but when it came to the vast social universe of adaptations not dealing with sexuality--how to act, how to speak, how to behave--they had the advantage of learning at home. Many gays don't realize what a blessing it was to be reared in a traditional home."

[bushwanker]

21.

Thanks Allan for that story, it was enlightening and confirmed the fears I have for children brought up in a same sex household.
In some ways I am biased against homosexuals because of the experiences suffered by my 3 children at the hands of an uncle who was a homosexual. Butter would not melt in his mouth and all the while he was secretly poisoning the minds and bodies of my children with what he considered as normal social behaviour.

Later in the life of my two boys another homosexual male attempted to interfere with them by exposing his penis and wanting them to fondle him etc etc but fortunately I found out in time before. My children have been scarred for life at the hands of these filthy deviates. I realise that not all homosexuals are evil but I fear that a lot of homosexuals are easily tempted and have little willpower so I fear for young children being brought up by homosexual males in particular. My experiences are not isolated either as I have anecdotal evidence of similar things happening to other families and whilst the homosexual lobby groups will say that the same sort of things can happen at the hands of heterosexuals my response would be that the paedophiles involved were probably closet homosexuals anyway.
Again I say that homosexual adults have the basic human right of being able to do whatever they do to each other in private but I firmly believe children are at risk of being sexually abused or at the very least socially inadequate or damaged by being brought up by same sex parents and in particular male same sex parents.

[Allan]

22.

There are a million stories similar to yours, Bush and it is a pity that people like Oldman choose to ignore them and live in such denial. Instead he chooses to label you a narrow-minded busy-body because you raise a legitimate concern based upon personal experience.

He once called me a racist bigot because I had a few groups to say about the Muslim riots in Sydney. Water off a duck's back and all that stuff, but it was another demonstration of a closed mind.

[Derek]

23.

At the end of the day, it's not the government's job to provide definitions to the family unit, or support one form over the other.
The government in Australia is supposed to act as a legislature for the creation of new laws, not ideologies.

If a single parent or gay couple want to source a non-commercial surrogate child, why is it the government's business to interfere with that process?
As for commercial surrogacy, it should be treated as any other form of business transaction, tax included.

Governments in Australia are intruding too deeply into the lives of its citizens, and it's sad to see that both of the major parties are only exacerbating the problem. It seems that only the Liberal Democratic Party wants to genuinely help us by getting big government out of our lives.

[bushwanker]

24.

The current governments legislative agenda has and does support extreme ideologies such as environmental & multicultural ideologies.

If same sex couples are allowed to enter into traditional marriage it will be just one step closer for those homosexuals to procure a child.
Human beings, children and infants are not commodities to be traded in the traditional ways you have described.

Infants and children who are defenceless need to be protected.

I agree wholeheartedly that the government is intruding into the lives of it's citizens and I also agree that the LNP will seek to reduce this intrusion.

[Linne]

25.

Derek, I understand what you are saying in your opening, but it doesn't work that way does it? As Bushwanker has said, governments, especially this current rabble, can't keep their socialist social engineering fingers out of it. They are intent on controlling every aspect of our lives.

Surrogacy should most definately not be treated as any other form of business transaction. Open slather surogacy would be akin to trading in humans and that is, I believe, a crime. As much as we detest government interference, if that is the only way to control it then so be it. After all we are talking about your humans here, not little slabs of pork.

[Derek]

26.

@bushwanker and Linne
I understand where you're both trying to come from, and I understand the influence in private life that the Labor party tries to exploit.
I'm not denying that at all, but I'll give you a hypothetical.
Say for instance, there's a couple that don't have the capability to have a child because the woman is barren. Under the new Queensland law, that sort of commercial surrogacy is still legal. Do you think that, in that situation, trading in human beings is acceptable?

As for the LNP, Liberals and Nationals, they offer no protection from more intrusion such as the NDIS, so voting for those parties should be avoided because they keep pushing the big government message, albeit slightly diluted.
Only the Liberal Democratic Party has had the courage to take a step back and actually support a 'small government' instead of a slightly 'smaller' one.

[Surrogate mother India]

27.

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