Why We Still Need Feminism

Jessica Muslin argues that those on the right should embrace - not shun - the feminism label: 

I find it scary that ‘feminism’ is a dirty word nowadays. I find it disturbing that so many women I know don’t consider themselves to be a feminist. I find it frightening that most of my male peers simply view feminism as an instrument for affirmative action. I find it perplexing that many people do not believe that we still need feminism today.

As someone who is very active in a rather conservative political party, many people might find it strange that I consider myself to be an extremely proud feminist. This is because of the simple fact that I acknowledge the gender disparity that exists today, and confidently know that it needs to change somehow.

I have a lot of friends who think that feminism is outdated and no longer needed. Looking at the status quo, you might be forgiven for thinking that that is the case – women have pretty much all of the ‘formal rights’ they didn’t have a century ago, such as the rights to vote, work and run for political office.

However, the issues that women still face are as many as they are complex. The fact that women make up an extremely small amount of corporate CEOs in many western liberal countries upsets me. The fact that domestic violence is still so common in many parts of both the developing and western world enrages me. The fact that many men think that opinionated women “just need to calm down” disturbs me.

With that being said, what frustrates me most about the ‘feminism’ debate is the fundamental lack of understanding about the different types of feminism that exist. Not every feminist supports affirmative action. Not every feminist supports government paid maternity leave. There are an amazing range of ‘feminist views’ within society, and critics of feminism must learn to distinguish between them.

For example, most people who term themselves a feminist have completely different views on issues like prostitution and pornography. Most sex-negative feminists don’t support these industries on the basis that they perpetuate a stereotype of female sexual behaviour, thus constructing the way women are interpreted sexually. However, many other feminists believe that allowing women to make their own sexual choices, such as the choice to become a prostitute, is core to the notion of women making their own free decisions.

Feminists have a wide range of opinions about what the best approach is to deal with the fact that women still make up a very small number of high corporate and political positions. Yes, many feminists have advocated and supported the need for government intervention to deal with this issue – but just as many other feminists advocate a more ‘organic’ and ‘non-interventionist’ approach in obtaining better career options for women.

The point is – there is not one type of feminist. Feminism can mean a range of different things to different people and this is perfectly fine. The over-arching aim of feminism is to be constantly challenging the way both genders are viewed in society, and to be positively contributing to how we can make both genders respect each other as much as possible. You don’t have to support bra-burning or affirmative action to agree with this basic sentiment.

The biggest misconception about feminism is that it doesn’t care about men’s issues. Quite the opposite is true. Feminism cares about equality – it’s plain and simple. The great thing about feminism is that it essentially transcends gender. The debate doesn’t have to be exclusively about women. In fact, challenging popular notions of masculinity can be a part of the way men engage with and interpret feminism. However, society is only able to construct these dialogues when more men engage with the feminist discussion.

I wish I knew more men who proudly identified as feminists. It’s a shame that those who do always end up branded negatively. It’s probably a bigger shame that many women on the conservative side of politics would never dare classify themselves by the ‘feminist’ label, for fear of being viewed differently.

The misapprehension that feminism is intrinsically opposed to liberal or conservative ideology needs to change. The core basis of both liberalism and conservatism asserts that everyone deserves the same rights, freedoms and opportunities, regardless of biology. This idea is also fundamental to the feminist doctrine, and is something that the right-wing of politics should not only accept, but embrace.

I have no doubt in my mind that we still need feminism, and that all people, regardless of political persuasion, should be empowered to call themselves a feminist. The next time you hear the word ‘feminism’ being brought up in political discussion, please do not cringe, shy away from the debate or worse still, go on the offensive. It is only with more considered and informed discussion can we move past the idea that feminism is an exclusive club for left-wing female academics, and actually make a difference for gender equality.

Jessica is a 3^rd year law and politics student at Griffith University. She is a member of the Young LNP and the President of the Griffith University Liberal Club.

Comments

[S Jboothby98]

1.

Why do you have to label yourself as a "feminist" if it has such a vague and differing meaning? Can you not just be an individual with certain beliefs?

[jim morris]

2.

Jessica seems like a nice person but she doesn't have a clue about feminism in the real world.
Having raised a daughter as a single dad (she is now a doctor) I can tell her that feminism is an ugly force.
I couldn't be bothered explaining to her the whys and wherefores of feminism. She will probably see for herself one day. But keep in mind that when the pendulum swings back women will not have a leg to stand on.

[The voice]

3.

How can the conservatives on the right Embrace notions of feminism? The two are mutually exclusive. What next? They embrace equality and gay marriage?

I think it's a bit of wishful thinking on Jessica's part.

[Ross]

4.

You actually haven't made a point why it needs to be embraced?

[Ruth Bonnett]

5.

I have written previously about feminism and how it has failed us.
http://justgroundsonline.com/forum/topics/has-feminism-failed-us
Feminism is anti woman, anti man, anti family and anti community.
I should have spoken up in the 70's when it was just getting started. I was too young to know how utterly corrosive and damaging this movement was, and still is.

[Ben]

6.

You’re right to point out that the movement is diverse. Early feminists were often brave and independent-prolife figures (Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Matilda Joslyn Gage, Victoria Woodhull, Elizabeth Blackwell, Alice Paul, and so on).

Today’s media-approved adults-first feminists tend to be supportive of taxpayer-funded abortion “choices” but against private school choices - turning millions of women and men of faith off. Then again, strong people don’t need labels do they?

[Major Karnage]

7.

There's a kind of grim satisfaction that comes from seeing author railing against something and then her point being proven by the ensuing comments.

Jessica, hear hear.

[kraka]

8.

Not all woman are feminists and there are varying degrees of feminism. The rabid man hating ones have put the feminist movement back century's as their brand of feminism is more about man hating than doing good for women (these are the ones who apologize to extremists on behalf of the West while their sisters have their clitoris hacked off)
Then there is we can't be promoted because we are women type-these are the talentless ugly ones who feel they deserve a leg up and want it legislated.
Unfortunately between these two they take away from the other 90% who deserve all the recognition and plaudits they get.
It is hard and it is a mans world in many ways but if you have the talent or looks or intelligence or character or any other characteristic required to be a success-it doesn't matter-you work hard you get the rewards whether your male,female,black or white it's simple really. There are exceptions but they are nowhere near as plentiful as the media would make it out to be.
On an argumentative side there is one thing I would say that upsets many feminists-the rabid bra burning types-the 60s bra burners mistakenly are of the belief that because they were half the population they made up half the talent pool-a seriously twisted (and wrong) supposition.
These 60's bra burners are now the ones demanding paid parental and it is my belief it is to try and exclude the younger generation from competing with them in the market place. Has nothing to do with womens rights (I agree with the premise of paid parental though I disagree you should have to hold the position.)
Debate away

[Mr T]

9.

Major Karnage, the author also said "The point is – there is not one type of feminist."

Before you go criticising the "ensuing comments", you should keep in mind what she said - and these people you criticise have probably only met one type of feminist - the rabid man-hating sort.

You describe yourself as a "young professional" - by the time you get to be an "old professional", you will see more of life - and it's not all fair or pretty.

As an aside, I work in an organisation of about 10,000 employees - there is one CEO.
Most of the CEOs in the public eye have a lot more employees than 10,000. The odds are not good in getting there - for anyone. There's also the fact that the few that I have got to know over the years are nothing but scheming low-lifes - I would neither want them as friends nor to work with them.

And would you really recommend "government intervention" to get more women CEOs? How many Julia Gillards could the economy handle??? (It's how the old Soviet system worked - but you already know that).

[Jessica Musulin]

10.

Hi Jim, thankyou for your comment. I would actually be genuinely curious to know why you think feminism is an ugly force. Granted – like any movement, it has its flaws – but I believe the goals of feminism transcend any one era. Feminism used to fight for the right for your daughter to be a doctor in the first place – now it fights for her right to fulfil that career without institutional discrimination or a lack of a meaningful choice about her career/family balance, amongst other things. Aren’t these ultimately worthy causes to fight for?

[Jessica Musulin]

11.

Thanks for your comment. I definitely think there is something to be said about the other comments. Ultimately I knew that many of the responses I received would be of this nature, but I guess it can only be a good thing to encourage this sort of debate, and hopefully get a few people to change some of their misconceptions about feminism.

[Jessica Musulin]

12.

Of course its wishful thinking – I’m not naive – but I think it’s something that principally needs to be said. Though I don’t identify as a conservative (more so a libertarian), what I do respect about the conservative moment is its ability to advocate for the traditions that we need, dispense with the traditions we don’t, and evolve the traditions that are beneficial but need to be modernised. I love it when David Cameron said that he supported same-sex marriage not despite being a conservative, but because he is one. It’s that kind of mentality that I wish conservatives would use more often. As I already said - the core basis of both liberalism and conservatism asserts that everyone deserves the same rights, freedoms and opportunities, regardless of biology. Surely this is compatible with feminism?

[Jessica Musulin]

13.

Hi Ross, thanks for your comment. What I did say is that despite the gains we have made with 'formal rights' (e.g. the right to vote, work, etc), it is a problem that women still face domestic violence, institutional discrimination and many, many other issues. Evidently feminism needs to be embraced to address these issues, as a cause is more effective when it is large and united.

[Jane Doe]

14.

just watch how aubrey is being treated on the celebrity apprentice. you may laugh at my example but i don't really care. this is a highly popular pop culture program where a strong women has been labelled a whore, bossy, a bitch and self obsessed ... because she speaks her mind and is creative. feminism shouldn't be scoffed in this patriarchal society it should be mandatory.

[Drunk Guy]

15.

Sorry, feminism turned the corner 20 years ago, Men cannot simply quit their CEO jobs so a woman can do it, that is an absurd arguement.
Feminism turned the corner back them, now it simply is sexism which is legal.
Look at how poorly treated and how few rights fathers have in custody and seperation cases, they have almost none.
If feminism was truely about equality, then there would also be Masculinism, but there is not.

[Drunk Guy]

16.

Woah, huge leap there. How exactly is a medical student and then graduated doctor facing institutional discrimination or lack of meaningful choice? that is absolutely not the case at all. If you'd cited nursing as having those things, a workplace dominated by women right to the very peak of it's structure, i would whole heartedly agree, discrimination is indemnic in Nursing especially toward male nurses. Think you're on very shakey ground with the Doctor stuff though.

[kraka]

17.

Jessica you are a conservative complaining that conservatives need to change their views on feminists. How exactly-it is safe to say that the left of politics has been an abject failure on promoting women. Promoting women to show your PC credentials is useless if it is not done on merit and merit alone (Joan Kirner,Cheryl Kernot,Carmen Lawrence,Kristine Keneally,Anna Bligh, Julia Gillard-all hopeless-all promoted because of their sex)The most famous conservative female leader is the Iron Lady herself-an absolute legend. At least if you are promoted in a conservative party you can feel fairly assured you deserved it.

[A Facebook User]

18.

I was a feminist.
However I am also a sex worker, and apparently I must therefore be a 'trafficked sex-slave' [thank you gloria steinem]

Until feminism returns to embracing the choices made by ALL women, not just the ones that they deem acceptable I will not refer to myself as a feminist again.
While-ever Steinem and Jeffrey's want to insult my intelligence by referring to me as a prostituted woman, and telling me that I am so victimised that I don't even know I am a victim, I am NOT a feminist.

[Mr T]

19.

Jessica : "it is a problem that women still face domestic violence"

Jessica - could you please tell the figures for the men who face domestic violence?

Jessica: "hopefully get a few people to change some of their misconceptions about feminism."

Jessica - your conception of the colour blue is what you see it to be. Peoples' (mis)conceptions of "feminism" is what they see it to be. Is your perception of blue a misconception because other people see it differently?

Jessica says: "Feminism cares about equality – it’s plain and simple."

Your feminism may be as such - unfortunately, the feminism I have seen is not like that at all - how do you think many of us got our "misconceptions"?

[Major Karnage]

20.

I generally don't recommend government intervention for anything. I'm also well aware of how hard it is to become a CEO of a company.

What I do recommend is that we be cognoscent of a problem that still genuinely exists in our society. What Jessica's post seemed to be about was how most people in the conservative movement take a myopic view of feminism as a way for ugly, lazy and talentless women to justify not being employed – when this is far from the case.

The equality of opportunity is a fundamental tenet of our society, striving towards this is something that we should all be doing. I would completely agree that the left has done a very bad job of promoting women, which is why we need some better ideas from the right – ideas that don't involve failed affirmative action and Big Government initiatives, but are grounded in societal values.

[Jessica Musulin]

21.

I agree with you in some respects – that society needs to balance its efforts in looking at male/female issues, and not neglect problems that men regularly face (e.g. child custody dispute bias). That being said – feminism DOES care about men’s issues. Most people I know who deem themselves a feminist would care about the fact that men face a lot of negative bias in family law matters. However, the fact that you think I’m asking for “men to quit their CEO jobs so a woman can do it” shows a fundamental lack of understanding of what I’m advocating. I’m simply making the point that if approximately 2% of CEOs in Australia are women, then that’s probably something we should question as a society. I’m not saying that quotas or other means of affirmative action are the way to go at all. When I talk about a lack of a meaningful choice for a woman (that say works as a doctor), I'm talking about the fact that many women feel they can't have children because it will inhibit their ability to advance in their career. Feminism simply advocates having a discussion about why these norms exist, and how we can go about changing them.

[Anton]

22.

Are you sure feminism is a solution to domestic violence?

Feminism is probably the most significant cause of domestic violence in modern times. Think about cause and effect in a constrained environment.

[Mr T]

23.

Major Karnage says "What I do recommend is that we be cognoscent of a problem that still genuinely exists in our society"

Lots of problems still "genuinely exist in our society". Is the problem the lack of women as engineers or the predominance of women in teaching & nursing? As far as I am aware, pay rates don't discriminate between male & female, nor are women prevented from gaining promotion on merit.

Where I work (120+ engineers), the new head of our R & D department is a woman - no technical skills whatsoever. My concern with this type of approach is that if I have a technical problem, or an engineering decision has to be made, that's the job of the (incompetent) manager.

It's not a matter of "ugly, lazy and talentless women" not having jobs, but a case of under-qualified women (& men) being given jobs they should not have.

Major Karnage, you say "The equality of opportunity is a fundamental tenet of our society, striving towards this is something that we should all be doing."

"Equality of opportunity" is a fairly nebulous phrase - I don't think there are too many places/jobs that ban women. You may know some - if so, could you please provide information on them.

I agree totally with the poor job by the left - but their position is just to use people for their own ends. It's the nature of the beast.

[Jessica Musulin]

24.

Thankyou so much for your comment. I do agree with you to some extent - as a sex-positive feminist, I don't agree with the radical sentiment that women can't make decisions about their sexuality. I am sorry that you don't feel you can engage with feminism because of the way sex-negative feminists advocate their position however, because I strongly believe that feminism should be as inclusive as possible.

[Jessica Musulin]

25.

Thankyou so incredibly much for your comment. I honestly couldn't have said it better myself. You've articulated everything else that I've been thinking, but couldn't put into words.

[Derek]

26.

Does anyone know if Tim Andrews still produces the 'Sexy Women of the University Liberal Clubs'? that was putting women on the map.

[Mr T]

27.

Jessica, you say "I'm talking about the fact that many women feel they can't have children because it will inhibit their ability to advance in their career."

As one goes through life, one makes choices. The reason we make choices is that we can't do/have everything. It's really that simple.

I would have really liked to have been an Antarctic explorer, engineer, astronomer, physicist, remote area geologist, time traveller (been watching Dr Who since it first came out), artist, musician, uni lecturer, martial artist, archaeologist, get married and have a 15 kids and a dozen other things.

Unfortunately, I could only fit in being an engineer. However, I am not complaining that Society didn't make all my "wishes" come true.

Jessica, you say "Feminism simply advocates having a discussion about why these norms exist, and how we can go about changing them."

You are making a big assumption here - the same one the left/socialist/progressives make - what we have now is inherently wrong and must be changed. You did the 2-step: discuss norms, change the norms. You really should see what is wrong before you "fix" it. Sometimes, what has been done for a long time is done for the correct reason, and not just to keep women down.

[Jessica Musulin]

28.

All of this comes down to what your interpretation of being a feminist means. Obviously the entire point of my article is that I believe feminism should be an inclusive as possible. People with different political leanings will advocate solving women’s issues by different methods – and this can only be a good thing. We need to get over the idea that it’s “affirmative action or nothing”, because that is a false dichotomy.

[gwallan]

29.

Jessica Musulin said...
Obviously the entire point of my article is that I believe feminism should be an inclusive as possible.

So why is it that rape victims in Australia are laughed at and called liars by feminist run, government funded services? They are mocked by services their taxes pay for merely because they are male or were abused by a female. Is this your idea of "inclusive" because it certainly isn't mine? There are countless victims in this country who confront institutionalised discrimination created by feminists.

Understand that when class politics becomes a part of governance, administration or any system the only possible result is exclusion. I judge feminism by it's actions. Those who marginalise victims contribute to the harm those victims experience. As such they are no better than the abusers themselves.

[Mr T]

30.

gwallan said "I judge feminism by it's actions."

I agree totally with what you wrote above - unfortunately, I fear Jessica has not had enough "life experience" to temper her ideals and theories.

Though, Jessica - do not despair - keep your eyes, ears and mind open, and you will see what others have seen.

[Major Karnage]

31.

Mr T and Gwallan: You are both persisting with the exact assumption that Jessica was trying to address from the beginning – i.e. "feminism as practised ≣ feminism as could be practised". Like many things that could be positive, the word "feminism" has been hijacked by the extreme left to justify interventionist policies in the guise of "equality". It's the equivalent of defending Islamists who preach the destruction of our society in the name of "multiculturalism".

At its core, feminism is the idea that women are not inferior to men and should be afforded the same respect and the same opportunities. Some people who refer to themselves as "feminists" are responsible for all of the counterproductive policies that you have identified, but that is not an indictment on feminism – it's an indictment on them.

Meanwhile, there still are plenty of societal barriers to women in areas like corporate boards – and I say this as a man who has sat in numerous corporate boardrooms where the closest woman was at the front desk. I also would agree with Gwallan's point that a lot of industries present barriers for men – but that is something that feminism is against, so I'm not really sure why you raised that. There is no logical reason why all of the girls I went to high school went on to study teaching, psychology or PR and all of the guys studied law, accounting or business. These are values that are ingrained in society unnecessarily and we can and should do something about it.

[Major Karnage]

32.

No worries :) At least someone gets what you're saying, right?

I feel like these people read the title to your post, then started shaking their fists and went straight to the bottom to comment – skipping over the actual stuff that you wrote.

[bluebell]

33.

Jessica - If you want a real feminist cause why don't you try and help women inside fundamentalist Muslim countries who are battling against total male domination over every aspect of their waking lives. They could only dream of having such a movement that would do battle on their behalf. The Feminist cause as indeed being highjacked by hard bitten lefties with their own agenda. Feminism should be about advancing the rights of women as human beings and in particular to have the same rights and respect that our male counterparts seem to enjoy. As the 'weaker' sex we have always being at the mercy of a male dominated world where they set the rules. One of my biggest arguments against feminists in this country is their passion for upholding the rights of Muslim women in Australia to wear the Burka.....but are virtually silent on the abject misery of those who's right not to wear the black 'iron curtain' is denied. In countries like Iran and Afghanistan a woman's lot is one of misery and fear with religious police on the prowl for the slightest dress code infringement. Beaten and jailed. Sometimes executed or stoned....especially in places like Afghanistan. As a feminist how do you resign yourself to the fact that millions of your sisters will live all their lives under the boot while western feminists engage in empty self absorbed rhetoric??? If you indeed uphold feminist values, as a liberated westerner, try to make a difference to those that are desperate for your help from people such as yourself.

[Mr T]

34.

Major Karnage - You must have had a strange class at high school - none went on to study science or engineering? Pretty hopeless lot, I'm afraid - a lost generation??

Feminism is what we personally have seen feminism to be - how can it be any different? It is irrelevant to us what Jessica and you think it should be.

If Jessica wants what you say she wants - it may be better to come up with a new name for it - feminism, as you say, has been hijacked by the extreme left.

"At its core, feminism is the idea that women are not inferior to men and should be afforded the same respect and the same opportunities."

That's not really feminism, is it? It's equality of opportunity and respect for all. I recall something called "The Golden Rule" covering this. Or are you assigning a gender to something that should be neutral? Are you being sexist - saying that such things can only be handled by "feminism"??

[Mr T]

35.

bluebell - I've often wondered the same myself.
Maybe they're afraid of Islam. (Witness the cartoons a few years back).

It's a lot easier (and immeasurably safer) to "fight the good fight" in a civilised country.

Or maybe "western feminists engage in empty self absorbed rhetoric???"

[Major Karnage]

36.

Sure, that's the Golden Rule – which is why feminism is important. If we recognise that our society has not yet achieved the Golden Rule, it is therefore our duty to work towards it. Our society began as one dominated by men and has not yet achieved full gender equality, therefore we should work towards achieving this. That is called "feminism".

[Major Karnage]

37.

That's a totally fallacious argument and you do yourself a disservice by using it. Firstly, it assumes that we are doing nothing to speak out against Islam and women – which is totally untrue. Check the first post up on www.majorkarnage.net if you don't believe me.

Secondly, just because there is a worse wrong somewhere else does not make it wrong to help your local community. By your logic, we have no right to complain about anything if we're not on the ground trying to resolve the conflict in the Congo (which I would say is the worst thing happening in the world right now). How can we possibly complain about a carbon tax when there are children being murdered every day?

The reality is that there is very little you or I could do to liberate women in the Middle East. If Australians who are neither Arab nor Muslim travel to the Middle East and start trying to "empower women", it would probably do more harm than good – not to mention put our lives in danger needlessly.

We can, however, help change the discriminatory culture in Australia. That isn't so hard to do.

[Major Karnage]

38.

In fact, I find it quite amazing how many people suddenly seem to care about Arab women when they are explaining why they don't like feminists.

[Mr T]

39.

Major Karnage - You are pretty selective on which questions you answer.

So, the only way to have our society achieve the Golden Rule is feminism?

I am afraid you and Jessica have a different idea as to what feminism is compared with most of the rest of the population.

And I don't find it "quite amazing how many people suddenly seem to care about Arab women when they are explaining why they don't like feminists." I would have thought that it would be expected. In our world, it seems strange to normal people that feminists keep away from this fight.

And what you have posted on other posts is irrelevant to this discussion here - on Jessica's post.

Your arguing for Jessica gives me the impression that you don't think she can handle the arguments herself - that's a pretty sexist attitude, isn't it? Perhaps you better go give yourself a healthy dose of feminism - or maybe masculinism (seeing none of your classmates at high school did science, engineering or the trades).

[Major Karnage]

40.

1. Where did I say "only" or remotely imply that there is nothing else we should be doing?

2. So we're reclaiming the word. I believe that was the whole point of this discussion in the first place.

3. Is ad hominem and I won't address it.

[bluebell]

41.

The power of the Internet, Facebook and Twitter can be used to harness real change in the Muslim world. Why doesn't the feminist movement USE these tools for the better....there is no need to physically go to these countries and risk your life. There are feminist groups even in Afghanistan...and they could sure do with some moral and financial help to make the lives of their women bearable. As far as I am concerned the women of Australia have plenty of avenues to address discrimination. If you want to make real inroads to injustice towards women you have to tackle it at the global level. Oh...and I hate to break it to you, a Carbon Tax won't save us from ourselves. It's already too late. Not one politician on this planet is addressing the root cause of our looming problems......out of control global population. You see, we have almost increased our numbers by four fold within 100 years. You don't have to be a monumental mathematical genius to work out that we are majorly stuff-fed. We will be like rats devouring everything before us until the planets eco-systems implode. Look around and take stock what we are doing to our animal kingdom. Entire species on the verge of extinction, fish stocks rapidly depleting before our eyes and humanities frantic attempts of burying our mountains of waste in landfill. Despite Bob Brown and his loony greens, No Carbon Tax will solve these things. The earth is a living breathing organism and we are unfortunately the parasite that threatens it very survival. Don't' be surprised when she unleashes the mother of all pandemics to protect herself....that's if some crazy scientist doesn't get in first.

[Jessica Musulin]

42.

Whilst I appreciate that you might think I don’t have enough ‘life experience’, I believe that I’m educated enough to know that because of my gender, I will always face more disadvantage than you do. As a law student, I know that my chances of becoming a senior partner at a corporate firm or a federal court judge are a fifth of that of a man. I know that I’m likely to receive approximately 80% of the pay that a male colleague receives, for exactly the same work. I know that I’m likely to receive 94% less time than a man to present arguments in court as a barrister. Yes, I may not have the ‘life experience’ you speak of, but I think statistics speak for themselves.

As much as it would be nice to have a movement called the “equality of opportunity and respect for all” movement, unfortunately that is not going to be enough to address the inherent discrimination, gender stereotypes and patriarchal norms that exist and continually disadvantage women. If you’re fighting for gender equality, and the most disadvantaged gender group is women, it makes to fight in the name of ‘feminism’ and not ‘respect’.

I’m not even going to address your last post, as it is utterly ridiculous and completely offensive.

[Jessica Musulin]

43.

Thank you for your suggestion that I try to help women inside fundamentalist Muslim countries. It will please you to know that I have actually donated money to women’s causes in both Iraq and Egypt, and have participated in many Model UN conferences where we have discussed human rights issues for women in the Middle East, in order to raise awareness. I know it’s not much but it’s something within my capacity. By that same token, as Major Karnage already stated, just because something might be worse in another country that does not mean that we shouldn’t be aiming for improvement at home. I also feel that I am in a better position to address gender inequality in Australia, since it affects me so directly.

[Jessica Musulin]

44.

Thank you once again for your extremely insightful comments. I do agree with you about the likelihood of a lot of people simply seeing “feminism” in the title of my piece, then proceeding to argue without even reading it. I wish people would be more open-minded, but to an extent I understand the apprehension towards feminism when the brand has been tarnished by those on the far-left. I hope more people can get to the point where they acknowledge that a gender disparity exists and engage more in the discussion about how we change it. Conservative sceptics simply have to get past the idea that all ‘change’ has to come from government intervention, and recognise that internal change and the evolution of societal values and norms is extremely important.

[pk]

45.

"Feminism is probably the most significant cause of domestic violence in modern times"

hear hear, If she'd just put dinner on the table instead of opening her f**king mouth to discuss the family finances, I wouldn't have had to knock her teeth out.

Oh how I long for the good old days when women were forced to retire after becoming pregnant and we men had to co-sign for their credit card applications.

http://athousandreasons.com/

[ThePhilosopher]

46.

Well Pinko Klown at long last a post from you where I can say EXACTLY RIGHT. I had exactly the same reaction when I read the post to which you refer.

This thread is populated by mysogynists with some sort of axe to grind.

Feminism isn;t the cause of domestic violence. By and large its thuggish ignorant men who think women are on earth to serve them and keep their place. As a father of daughters mine have been raised and educated to know that " girls can do anything "

Well done Jessica

[ThePhilosopher]

47.

Jessica it is not the case that conservative equals misogynist.

There seems to be some confusion over what you mean by feminism with everyone jumping on their particular stereotype and taking it for a ride. No matter what the article contains I fear that the title was enough to set off a rant or two.

Women are active and driving the conservative movement to address these issues.

[Jessica Musulin]

48.

Thankyou for your comments. Obviously I did intend for the article to be quite provocative, and I am glad that it spurred a lot of comments, despite the fact that I disagree with most of them. I believe that there is a difference between acknowledging that gender inequality is a problem, but not wanting a solution that requires government intervention, and believing that there isn't a problem in the first place. People who believe that it is fair for women to have to choose between a career and a family are the people I have a problem with. I don’t believe that one is a misogynist for simply not wanting affirmative action.

[gwallan]

49.

Major Karnage, you mention assumptions. You should be very careful in your own. I was an active, radical feminist until the late nineties and am fully au fait with all feminist doctrine.

Gwallan's point that a lot of industries present barriers for men – but that is something that feminism is against, so I'm not really sure why you raised that.

Not really sure?

"So why is it that rape victims in Australia are laughed at and called liars by feminist run, government funded services?"

Did you actually read this? Feminists are not only for exclusion they are the very source of it. The feminist notion of inclusion only applies to women. It's quite OK to exclude boys and men. Nothing less than equality for women and nothing more than equality for men. Where women are the minority we must act to help them. Where men are the minority we must focus our attention on the majority.

The effective feminists are those in government or affecting government policy. That is the effective face of feminism. Claims that one is not "that type of feminist" mean either that one is NOT a feminist or that there is no feminism at all.

It's the equivalent of defending Islamists who preach the destruction of our society in the name of "multiculturalism".

WTF? Given the context and content of my post this is irrelevant and offensive.

Jessica Musulin said...
As a law student, I know that my chances of becoming a senior partner at a corporate firm or a federal court judge are a fifth of that of a man. I know that I’m likely to receive approximately 80% of the pay that a male colleague receives, for exactly the same work. I know that I’m likely to receive 94% less time than a man to present arguments in court as a barrister.

Actually Jessica you don't know any of these things.

[Mr T]

50.

Korporal Karnage and Jessica.

1. If you didn't want other peoples' opinions, why did you post on a blog where comments can be entered?

2. Myself and others tried to give you our impressions on what feminism means to us - for which the pair of you attacked/ridiculed us. It's a pity you did this - we could have given you useful information.

3. Neither of you appear to be contaminated by any sense of humour.

4. KK - in your boardroom position, were you the mail-boy or the tea-lady?

5. KK - "ad hominem"? With a name like Major Karnage, it's obvious you're an avid Marvel Comic reader - I didn't know they used Latin....

6. Jessica - I love your statistics. Was it Mark Twain who referred to "lies, damned lies and statistics"?

7. Jessica - I don't know what you think "life experience" is, but it something to do with experience and life - something you only get as you go through life. Fortunately, you know everything already - make the most of it - it's something that disappears as you get older.

8. KK & Jessica - next time you two want to pee in each others' pockets, please do it in private.

9. "I’m not even going to address your last post, as it is utterly ridiculous and completely offensive."
Maybe, but not as ridiculous and offensive as the way you put down anyone who disagrees with you.

I don't know what you started out to do, but if it was to set back your cause, you can claim success.

[Jessica Musulin]

51.

I'm not sure how I've attacked or ridiculed anyone. I'm engaging in a discussion where many of us happen to disagree with each other. If you consider that to be 'attacking' you then so be it.

On the other hand, you haven't really provided this discussion with any 'useful information'. You've continually stated that you don't believe I have enough life experience to have an opinion on this issue. It's a shame that you think young people don't deserve the right to have their views and concerns heard, since they have no 'life experience'.

What I 'started out to do' was to get people to think about feminism and possibly change their perception of it. I've received many messages from people telling me how much they enjoyed my article and how it got them to change some of their misconceptions. It's a shame that it didn't have that affect on you, but I was never naive enough to think I'd win over everyone.

[Mr T]

52.

"If you consider that to be 'attacking' you then so be it. "
This was meant for for Kaptain Karnage, not you - sorry.

"On the other hand, you haven't really provided this discussion with any 'useful information'."
Wanted to - we didn't get past the arguing stage.

You said "You've continually stated that you don't believe I have enough life experience to have an opinion on this issue."
What i said is "I fear Jessica has not had enough "life experience" to temper her ideals and theories."
There is a difference. You haven't really cottoned onto what "life experience" is yet, have you. You will, though, but it takes time. (That's a clue).

You said "It's a shame that you think young people don't deserve the right to have their views and concerns heard, since they have no 'life experience'."
What a crock - you show me where I said that.
That's an unfounded and untrue accusation - so, I repeat, show me where I said that.

There is quite a difference twixt what I actually said and what you said, isn't there.
Learn to read and comprehend.