Julia Gillard is no John Howard

John Howard's politics of conviction and principle are in stark contrast to Julia Gillard's lack of values, argues Robert Katsambis:

“If you just set out to be liked, you would be prepared to compromise on anything at any time, and you would achieve nothing.” - Margaret Thatcher

On last week’s Q&A Craig Emerson suggested that although the Howard government had to deal with “wall to wall state Labor Governments...that did not mean that John Howard and the Liberal Party were toxic”. To this, Howard’s former chief of staff Grahame Morris replied, “I know John Howard and Julia Gillard is no John Howard.”

It is worth reflecting on Morris’ words. Here is a man who worked closely with Howard throughout his time in office, who has a rare insight into the former Prime Minister’s psyche. His comment on Monday night was a perfect way to illustrate the weakness and ineptitude of Gillard and her government.

The distinction is simple and clear. Howard was a politician of conviction whereas Gillard will make any deal to keep alive her political career and does not actually believe in many of the things she does.

Former National Party MP John Sharp spoke of how during consultation with Coalition members on gun control following the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, “you knew you were talking to a brick wall” when trying to persuade Howard. Also, National Party Leader Warren Truss has described the manner in which the former Prime Minister was reluctant to make “little compromises”.

Howard’s labour market decentralisation was derived from a deeply entrenched belief in economic liberalism, and changes to unfair dismissal laws were testimony to his fervent commitment helping to small and family businesses.

You could not move Howard on these issues. It is widely accepted that he was a strong leader in the party room as well as in the public eye, and that he was driven by the conservative values that he would not surrender.

Contrast this with Julia Gillard. Just one day before the election she declared that “there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead” but shamelessly gave in to Bob Brown’s demands because she lacks conviction on the issue of climate change.

This subservience to the temptation of power dates back to when Gillard led a majority government. Shortly after becoming Prime Minister she was pressured by the mining industry to give Rio Tinto, BHP and Xstrata a better deal under the RSPT for the sake of staying alive politically as opposed to formulating good policy.

She then proceeded to make Kevin Rudd the Foreign Minister despite the public display of incompetence and indecisiveness that was his Prime Ministership, just so she could keep him quiet (and she failed miserably). And by recently admitting that she deposed Rudd because his leadership was disastrous, she concedes that she in fact knew that his appointment was not wise but all the more expedient.

And every day she strolls into Parliament House knowing that if she were to re-open Nauru  and bring back temporary protection visas she would stop the seemingly uncontrollable stream of boats that have threatened Australia’s border security as well as the lives of over 14,000 asylum seekers throughout her Prime Ministership and Deputy Prime Ministership. However she continues to back flip regularly on this issue and play political games with the national interest, running scared from what she believes will be a public opinion nightmare if she were to revive the successful Coalition policy.

If she possessed the resolute of John Howard she would have said something like “Bob, you can’t have your stupid carbon tax, and if you withdraw your support for us you’ll have to deal with Tony and you and I both know that he’s not going to give you a thing if we lose government, but how about we give you a billion dollars for your forests when we sell-off some of our assets”. 

But sadly, Julia Gillard is no John Howard. Just like she has already betrayed so called “core Labor values” and implemented the Green’s destructive agenda, she will continue go down this path as a lack of her own core values means that she will compromise on anything and ultimately achieve nothing.

 Robert Katsambis studies law and corporate finance at the University of Adelaide. 

 

 

 

Comments

[Tex Lumbago]

1.

Nice tie mate!

[Zaphod]

2.

Is Tony Abbott a conviction politic
ian?

[Mr T]

3.

I will never forgive Howard for disarming the Australian public.

[budgie smuggler]

4.

I know many people with guns. Disarmed?

[Grantley]

5.

....well the honest law abiding public anyway; apparently there are more guns in the hands of criminals than at any time before in Australia's history....but whose fault is that?

But that doesn't change the context of that article, yes, John Howard was a man of principal and conviction and one I am proud to say I have met, albeit too briefly.

[barry]

6.

John Howard, as with 100% of the human race had his faults.
But he lead Australia through prosperous,and positive times.
Julia Gillard is a giggling brainwashed twit, who is leading Australia on a downhill slide for the United Nations , and a one world government.
It's not rocket science, and all you leftards who support this brainless twit should be thrown out of the country with her.
So, "Julia Gillard is no John Howard"??

She's not even worthy of sitting on his little toe.

[John Mc]

7.

John Howard

- led the highest taxing government this country ever had (at least until we get the carbon tax)
- grew the public service to unprecedented levels despite promising to cut them back
- increased middle class welfare (vote buying) to new highs (although not as blatantly as the Gillard government is getting eg. NBN)
- removed basic protections from the people such as the requirement for parliament to to commit military forces
- generally opposed the concept of individual liberty e.g.. the draconian gun laws
- centralised power in Canberra by imposing national decisions on State matters, eg. water management, euthanasia, gun laws, indigenous matters

John Howard is the Australian definition of "big-government conservative" and does not belong in the Western tradition of governance that came out of the Enlightenment.

Yet he's still one of the better Prime Ministers we have had!

(What does that say about us?!)

[John Mc]

8.

If I remember correctly the Howard government also allowed a substantial overriding of basic civil liberties and privacy in the name of combatting terrorism eg. wire tapping, holding people without trial, searching without warrants.

[dante]

9.

Has Robert been living under a fig tree smoking pot when Howard was PM? Graham Morris remarks were correct but not in the sense that Robert understood. Howard never had to govern in a minority government, Howard was the man of political wedge and lies . Have we forgotten the 'children overboard' lies of the 2001 election?

What most fail to understand is that when Labor decided not to respond to Howard wedge politics ,it was able to expose Howard for what he was. Unfortunately the Australian public is lazy and it is easily convinced by slogans and 'simplistic policies', eg we turn the boat around, under the Libs interest will always be lower, and crap like that. The Australian public is not sophisticated enough to analyse facts and consider complex issues, eg some are still going on that Gillard lied re the carbon tax but it's clearly agreeing with the Greens was the only way to avoid another election and both parties, I repeat, both parties, had a policy on putting price on carbon for some time, or do we want to rewrite history?

Howard won the 2004 elections on lies, handouts and spreading fears. Labor, led by a tempestuous Latham, easily fell for Howard's trickery. Howard period in power is a litany of missed opportunities and rewards for the rich with tax cuts and concessions. He was dedicated at winning elections and not at governing.

And by 2007 Labor had learnt the lesson, the Australian public is racist, believe that tax cuts is good for them, and they are easily led. Labor had a populist leader and did not respond to the series of wedge Howard politics, i.e. Howard offered tax cuts, Labor matched it. Howard intervened in the Northern Territory, Labor didn't oppose it. Labor played the only card that Howard gave to them, the unpopular WorkChoices. Unfortunately for Labor, Rudd is a megalomaniac and a coward. He did not have the courage to push through Parliament major reforms like price on carbon and RSPT. He was prepared to delay putting a price on carbon and entered in a bitter despite with the mine industry over the Resource Super Profit Tax (for facts and myths about this go to http://www.mining-tax.com.au/). Worst of all he didn't have the courage to fight for his position in Caucus when confronted. Instead, he accepted the Foreign Affairs portfolio and undermined the Gillard government constantly.

Gillard is not Howard, she is more concerned about pushing through reforms then worrying about popularity. Rudd is like Howard, he worried about being popular and couldn't care less about carrying out needed reforms. In a democracy we often end up with the govern we deserve, and in 19 months the lazy, racist, unsophisticated and simple Australian public may elect Abbott, but don't blame me if he turns out to be lazy, simple and unable to manage complex issues, I would not have voted for him!!

[dante]

10.

WOW Barry, nice comments, it shows what you are made of ... it's not rocket science to assess that you are full of 'merda'!!!! Hint, translate using bing

[dante]

11.

The problem with you, John Mc, is that you start telling the truth and then you get lost. Let me help you.
- all models dealing with the introduction of price on carbon shows an increase of approx 1%
- the NBN is for everybody, it pays itself over time and will bring Australia into the modern age, talk to any from Europe and they will tell you that the internet speed in Australia is very poor.
- if individual liberty is allowing us to carry arms then you are sick, very sick. Why stop at arms, what about bombs?
- centralised power in Canberra by imposing national decisions on State matters, eg. water management, euthanasia, gun laws, indigenous matters - I'm surprised that you think the States should exist at all. I thought you supported 'small governments and would like to see the state abolished.

I'm recovering from the fits of laughter I had reading anarcho-capitalism philosophies and doctrines. How could anyone support a series of theories, philosophies and doctrines considering that we are dealing with humans? I can just imagine what Australia will be like if we eliminate "the state in favour of individual sovereignty in a free market" with people like Gina and Clive around, and others like you that favour bearing arms. We are so lucky that people like you are the tiny minority otherwise we would be really and truly f...d!!!

[Georgina]

12.

Do you remember, probably not owning a house, the 17% tax of Labor?

[kraka]

13.

Get over it Dante-history will record Howard as one of our best and Gillard as a disaster. Some of your other comments deserve ridicule
"Gillard is not Howard, she is more concerned about pushing through reforms then worrying about popularity"-the co2 and mining tax are not only NOT reforms, they will prove to be economic disasters, they were bought in as an appeasement and payback to the greens/unions on the back of a scam (AGW) and a lie (there will be no carbon tax under a government i lead). She is concerned about power, not popularity and she will appease any bob,windsor and oakeshotte to maintain it, no matter how disastrous the policy.
"Howard never had to govern in a minority government"- and neither has Gillard-with the aforementioned 3 stooges she ALWAYS has (and had) the numbers when it counts-not because they are doing the right thing but entirely the opposite-because of a personal dislike for perceived slights by the Liberals.In Bob Browns case they could damn the Franklin, build a nuclear power station next to his farm and ban gays and the GREENS would STILL have voted to give the ALP power. Gillard could have formed government without compromising on ANYTHING yet sold her integrity to maintain power. In other words-she was holding a fullhouse against a pair of 2's and FOLDED.
Then out comes the racist slurs again, no proof, no reason-just more unthinking dribble from the great dribbler himself.
You do realize Dante that your trolls that keep denigrating Howard and defending Gillard in the face of all contrary evidence just proves time and time again what a blinkered sheeple you really are. Just wait 18 months, you will be able to hold your Gillard fanclub meeting in a phone box.

[John Mc]

14.

No, I don't know what you're talking about. Are you thinking of interest rates?

[Georgina]

15.

What a lot of rot you write. You are a complete idiot when one looks at what you are writing. Wait and see before you talk such nonsense. Use some brains boy and buy a calculator. It is also evident that you have aspiration to be able to put something worthwhile into the economy.

[Georgina]

16.

second last para "NO aspiration"

[kraka]

17.

John, your post is full of facts however the middle class welfare line pushed by many is something I don't buy. Giving back people their own money through tax cuts and subsudies is not welfare IMO. Sure there was a vote buying aspect to it but we had a massive surplus on the back of the increased taxes collected though the spending on infrastructure should have been way more (not on white elephants like the NBN)
On that Dante-I'll bet you london to a brick the NBN will NEVER pay for itself in your lifetime. "Ask Europe"-in case you haven't notice dilbury Europe is a socialist basket case.
I pay a lot of taxes, I don't carry out an tax minimization policies and I haven't received a handout from the government since Howard come to power (not even the $900 rebate that dead people got from Dudd).Quite frankly I deserve more back from the government than the hundreds of thousands of dole bludgers,HECS loan recipients,professional grant receivers from the arty farty crowd,economic refugess who have no intention of getting a job, single mothers who piss the family allowances and alimony up against the wall and all the other ticks on society who waste their handouts on non productive shite. It is better in my pocket than theirs or the governments and Howard realized this.
Not saying he was perfect but he is so many miles in front of the dudd/dillard disaster it is not funny.

[Cynical Goat WA]

18.

In response to the headline.....never a truer word spoken.

[Georgina]

19.

Totoally agree Barry as anyone with any sense will. If simple people can't see we are on the slippery slope to ruination they will rue the day when Australia has a hard landing. Australians are doing it tough now and life wil get tougher under this government. Anyone with any sense at all can see through the ALP/Greens waste & mismanagement. Queensland proved that there are people out there with sense. Those who live longest will see most!

[John Mc]

20.

all models dealing with the introduction of price on carbon shows an increase of approx 1%

Are you denying the Gillard government will not be the highest taxing government in Australian history after the Carbon Tax (and mining tax) are introduced?

- the NBN is for everybody, it pays itself over time and will bring Australia into the modern age, talk to any from Europe and they will tell you that the internet speed in Australia is very poor.

The NBN will ensure Australia remains behind the rest of the developed world in the long term, but's not the point. I said the NBN was vote buying. This is blatant vote buying as Labor tries to win back its base before the election:

NBN rolls out Labor's 'map for re-election

- if individual liberty is allowing us to carry arms then you are sick, very sick.

If you believe individual liberty means limiting people's choices and disempowering them because they may do something wrong, you're an idiot with no understanding of the term. In terms of bearing arms, if you believe people can rightfully use force to defend themselves or their property but shouldn't be allowed to have the means to do it, you're a hypocrite.

I'm surprised that you think the States should exist at all.

That's because you're an idiot who can't understand simple concepts. Lean government does not mean centralising power upwards. It means making the decisions at the correct level, which is as close as possible to the people they affect.

I'm recovering from the fits of laughter I had reading anarcho-capitalism philosophies and doctrines./i>

I would say you haven't read anything beyond a couple of short articles on Wikipedia as you're too stupid to understand most of this material to any level of complexity. But answer this question: should society be organised along the lines of every individual being respected with people acting voluntarily and cooperating? Or should it be organised along the lines of the larger group forcing their will on the smaller one, and elites making decisions for subordinates, sacrificing the rights of a few unimportant individuals along the way?

We are so lucky that people like you are the tiny minority otherwise we would be really and truly f...d!!!

Tell that to the seven (maybe six?) confirmed socialists still left in Queensland:

Recount fails to lift Queensland Labor's seat tally

Can't wait until the Federal election, can you?

[barry]

21.

dante's usual diatribe of rubbish,,, ha ha ha ,, keep it up dante,we need more fools like you to help expose what a bunch of retards are running this country. ,

[Robert]

22.

Dante, the fact the Gillard has to work within the constraints of a minority government is no excuse for constantly backflipping on policies she has no confidence in or cares about. In almost every Parliarment the government has to deal with minor parties and independents to push legislation through, and it should not matter that Labor have to work within this constraint in both houses. Moreover, Gillard is regarded as being a skilled tactician and a born negotiator, and therefore she cannot use minority government as an excuse. And you said that Gillard was not like Howard because she isn't worried about popularity, despite mentioning the only reason she lied about the carbon tax was so she didn't have to face the polls.

But let’s forget about this for a moment. In your rant you grossly misrepresent the Australian people, and you should be ashamed of yourself for giving such a disgusting, fallacious account of everything this great nation stands for. Does your idea of being "lazy" involve working hard every day to pay off a mortgage and battle against the rising cost of living? And by "unsophisticated and simple" do you mean not closely following every aspect of the political debate and applying thorough analysis to it because you are pre-occupied with earning money to pay for groceries and petrol, or trying to give your kids a good life? And you say that "the Australian public is not sophisticated enough to analyse facts and consider complex issues"...What the hell are you talking about?! Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, the Australian people pay a lot less attention governance or political thought than yourself because they specialise in other areas and that you have no right to label them "unsophisticated" because these areas are not the ones that you (erroneously) purport be an expert in. It's like an astrophysicist approaching you and saying "dante, you are unsophisticated because you lack an in-depth understanding of the finer points of astrophysics" or a heart surgeon approaching you and saying "dante, you are unsophisticated because you lack an in-depth understanding of the finer points of heart surgery". If we had it your way and everyone fit your definition of "sophisticated" we would have plumbers who couldn't fix taps, firemen who couldn't put out fires or doctors who couldn't diagnose life threatening illnesses because everybody's life would be consumed by analysing the political debate and complex political issues. And don't even get me started about your idea that Australians are a racist people.

Your comment is an insult to every Australian coming home to see their family at the end of every day after working hard to put food on the table, every Australian facing the pressure of running a small business and every Australian who apparently unlike yourself has to deal with real issues and not simply sit on a computer all day and descend into fits of laughter from reading about anarcho-capitalism.

[Mr T]

23.

Dante - "if individual liberty is allowing us to carry arms then you are sick, very sick. Why stop at arms, what about bombs?"

Firstly the obvious - bombs can be made from a trip to the local supermarket/hardware store. Imply from that what you will.

I agree with the principle that the citizenry should be able to have their own weapons - if only to protect themselves from a totalitarian government.

If you look at the last 100 years or so, you will notice the great socialist governments like Lenin/Stalin (USSR), Hitler's National Socialists (Nazis), Chairman Mao Zedong (China), Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge, North Korea etc - their citizens all had NO right to bear arms - result: torture, murder, mass exterminations, death camps, gulags etc.

If, by some miracle, the Nature of Mankind somehow changes to near divinity, then, and only then, would I relinquish the right to bear arms.

To think otherwise shows that you have absolutely no knowledge of history nor any understanding of human nature. If that is not the case, "then you are sick, very sick".

[dante]

24.

Georgina dear, thanks for calling me an idiot ... I suppose that distinguishes me from you, and that is always good. With regard to you cretin remark about putting something into the economy I let you know that I'm very well off and I have never put my hand out for charity which I'm sure you do all the time because a cretin like you could not possible acquire any assets. Have a nice life if you can ... ciao

[dante]

25.

why did you deliberately left out all the great right wing governments? And I would hardly call Hitler a 'socialist' ... anyhow, given that I have a PhD in chemistry and I served in the army making and exploding bombs of various size ... I don't think I need to go to the supermarket to blow things up ... but sleep safe, I'm a pacifist!!

[dante]

26.

If the super profit mining tax is such an economic disaster how come they keep on coming downunder to invest? Continue to believe your own lies, what else deluded people can do?

[John Mc]

27.

You know a lefty has lost the argument when he starts claiming you should just accept his arguments, regardless of how easily they are logically rebuffed, simply because he's really, really good and you just don't know how good he is.

[dante]

28.

Australia has produced some very great people, some of the most talented in the world and these, inevitably are NOT on your side of politics. But Australia has a large population of beer swelling, racists, and unsophisticated idiots that generally contribute to this site, like those that support bearing arms, that without any supporting evidence accuse others of not having to deal with real issues, just as you did with me. Or those that are against university educated people as some have suggested on this site.

No country would have elected the likes of Hanson to Parliament, but Queenslanders did, not to mention Joh and current Country Party representative.

First action by the new Qld Premier was to abolish an Arts award. I wonder why....

A contributor on this site claimed to lean towards anarcho-capitalism doctrines, and this is what Noan Chomsky, a leading Libertarian said about this movement "The idea of "free contract" between the potentate and his starving subject is a sick joke, perhaps worth some moments in an academic seminar exploring the consequences of (in my view, absurd) ideas, but nowhere else."

If you have some time, I suggest you read Hacker & Pierson "Winner-take-all politics" and you may understand where I'm coming from and why I urge "Australian coming home to see their family at the end of every day after working hard to put food on the table" and "Australian facing the pressure of running a small business and every Australian who ... has to deal with real issues" to wake up and discard the crap the Right is selling you. If you don't belong into the 1% of the population, if you are the elite, you don't belong in the Right!! You are being used and played against yourself. It's that simple.

Forget party craps, look at the reality! The top end of town has increased its wealth 3-5 over the past 20 years, the middle class has been squeezed out, the poor got poorer. CEO that used to earn 20-30 times average wages in the 70s now earn 500+ times more. It's not Politics of Envy, its class warfare of the rich against the poor and people like you are letting them win by helping them. WAKE UP!!!

[Mr T]

29.

Dante said - "I would hardly call Hitler a 'socialist' .."

Why not? Hitler called his own party socialist....even though you have a PhD in Chemistry, you should still be able to read.

Let's see - total government control over everyones' lives through such nice little government arms such as the Gestapo... Do you really think in National SOCIALIST Germany that people had the freedom to say and do what they pleased (whilst not infringing on others' rights)? Did not the government intrude on all aspects of peoples' lives? (And not benevolently)

I fear you may have fallen for the great left wing/socialist lie that Hitler was "right-wing" - pushed and rationalised because he fought against your "Uncle Joe".

If you wish to name the great "right wing" governments of the last century, please do - keep in mind that a military dictatorship is not "right wing". And list the body count from these right wing governments.

[John Mc]

30.

If you don't belong into the 1% of the population, if you are the elite, you don't belong in the Right!! You are being used and played against yourself. It's that simple.

It's not Politics of Envy, its class warfare of the rich against the poor and people like you are letting them win by helping them. WAKE UP!!!

Nothing left to turn to, our resident loser has finally lost it!!!

[Robert]

31.

What are you talking about? Did you even read that last comment before you posted it? I've also noticed that you're a very stuck up person. And what kind of a pacifist are you if you made bombs for the army?

[dante]

32.

Gee you are an idiot, here, read if for yourself, cretin!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_dictatorship

[dante]

33.

You are a loser, a parrot and you are being manipulated ... but you probably like that, sexual perverts often love being manipulated ... enjoy it!!

[John Mc]

34.

That's all you've got, mate?

[dante]

35.

If I made bombs for the army was because it was my duty to do so. i was conscript (it wasn't the Australian army in case you are wondering) to defend the liberty of my fellow citizens ... but you wouldn't understand that, how could you?

[dante]

36.

mate? no thanks, I would never be your mate, I'm selective, thank you.

[John Mc]

37.

If you don't understand liberty, how did you defend it?

[barry]

38.

ahhhhh we've reached into the bottom of the barrel,,,sexual perverts??? really dante????
You been watching too much of Queensland Labor tactics????
Careful now , you might just expose the "real" you.

[John Mc]

39.

Selective? For someone who's selective you don't pick your battles very well!

[John Mc]

40.

Careful now , you might just expose the "real" you.

God, Barry, we are way past that point. What are we supposed to make of this: "Australia has a large population of beer swelling, racists, and unsophisticated idiots"?

It really is a phenomenon how much Teh Left is driven by envy; the notion that someone has something they don't, and a feeling of elitism that, being better than others, they rightly should have it too.

[John Mc]

41.

Where are you going, dante? Pick up that shovel and keep digging!!

[Mr T]

42.

Dante - let's get something straight here - I have not resorted to personal attacks - I have not called you a "cretin" or an "idiot". You can believe me when I tell you that, if you were in this room with me now, you would not call me a cretin or an idiot.

If that is what your rationale and argument is based on, then you are firing blanks, I'm afraid.

If you have a PhD in Chemistry, as you claim, then I am sure you know the reliability of Wikipedia as a source of information. Tertiary institutions do not generally allow Wiki as a reliable reference source.

I shall ask you this - if socialism is left wing is the control of all aspects of the peoples' lives by the State, then it follows that extreme right wing is anarchy - no government at all - that is hardly Hitler's National SOCIALIST government.

Where is your list of the great right wing governments of the last century???

If you have trouble putting an argument together, then I am sure you know some adults who can help.

[barry]

43.

dante is Get-Up in disguise

[kraka]

44.

Dante-you have absolutely no idea what is happening in the mining industry-I happen to be in it but truly this post is now proof positive that you are a trolling pubescent deliquent (and a liar to boot). You have now claimed to be,or have qualifications in,the earth sciences,economics,chemistry and been in the army yet pretty well everything you write (or should I say cut and paste from sites limited to only agreeeable opinion) says you have the understanding of a 12 year old. BHP,RIO,Anglo,Xstrata to name a few have already cancelled projects we were involved in and moved that spending to Sth Africa,Sth America,Canada and Northern Asia. Our company only 4 years ago showed Australia made up 38% of our global turnover while Sth Africa was 17% and Sth America 16%. We are all roughly 25% now. You don't have a clue-I tell you what, why don't you find someway to twist those numbers into proving Australia is a racist country-it is about the level of a lying "intellectual" like yourself.

[kraka]

45.

Noam Chomsky? Bwahahahahah-bwwwahahahahaha-be still my beating heart. Howard has more integrity and honesty in his little fingernail than that lying dope chomsky has in his hole body. I've changed my mind about you Dante-your not a troll trying to get a rise-you are a comedian-albeit a very stupid one.

[kraka]

46.

obviously should read "whole" body-just in case that grammar nazi Tee is reading.

[kraka]

47.

It's wikipedia Dante you dope-if you were the intelligent chemist,economist,climate scientist,army engineer you claimed to be you would know that wikipedia is BANNED as a source in scholl projects and assignments because it is UNRELIABLE. As John Mc says-keep digging-you might come through to the country you belong in-CHINA!!!
What a boofhead you are.

[kraka]

48.

uh oh-it is school Tee,not scholl-I',m sorry-please don't hurt me. Mr T-you already made the wikipedia unreliable point-i didn't see it until after but you are correct-it is banned at my sons school but not being a public funded one I can't say for sure that the far left wing teachers union hasn't allowed it in government funded ones seeing as the left love it as a source of information.
I wonder why the left wing sheeple always go to wiki for info?

[Mr T]

49.

kraka - the left wing love wiki because it allows them to re-write history the way they prefer it.

[Titas Aduxas]

50.

...
dante is Get-Up in disguise

Not much of a disguise though.

[Richo]

51.

Dante, you are clearly sad, bitter, depressed individual. Your contempt for fellow Australians is a poor reflection on yourself.

As I have said to you before if you don't like Australia/Australians, you are free to leave. If you do decide to do this, may I be the first to say "don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out".

[Georgina]

52.

Dante - thanks for your disgusting misrepresentation. Yes, you may be "well off" aren't you fortunate being able to put so much into the economy and never putting your hand out for charity. BUT do you give to CHARITY,those not so "well off" as yourself. You might like to know that my asets are probably more than yours and I have contributed to the economy for many years. I also have given, and still give my tithe to charity. Do you?

[Andy Semple]

53.

I agree completely agree with you, Mr. T
Australian liberty was made that one notch weaker.

[Andy Semple]

54.

I also agree with you, John Mc. However, Gillard is far worse.

[Andy Semple]

55.

There not. What you are seeing is the tail end of the large resource capital expenditure plans. Capital expenditure is down from 2 yrs ago. Watch the money flow to Africa

[ThePhilosopher]

56.

Dante is not GetUp in disguise. Like Tepi Tee and Pink Klown there is no disguise about these left wing loon sock puppets.

Dante is so far up his own left wing arse that he hasn't seen daylight for at least a decade. He sure hasn't read a book that wasn't edited by Karl Marx

The Aluminium industry will fell ahead of the Tax on air and who would blame them. The labor Luddites are intent on exporting all their working class supporters jobs. Just watch the sunamis that is gathering to wash this Government away.

Back to Red Square Comrade Dante! Your grasp on economics is non existant.

[ThePhilosopher]

57.

Come on Dante lets have it whose army where you in...Made bombs for the Army ?

What a goose you could not tell blasting fuse from det cord I bet. You read tooooo many comics. If your brains wre PE3 they wouldn't blow out a candle. I guess youd think a shaped charge was a police fitup ?

[ThePhilosopher]

58.

The Socialist in the National Socialist Party was a Socialism but an exclusive one in that it was based on the VolksGemeinSchaft or the national community which was purely Aryan. Within that Nagtional community Socialism was to provide the governing ideology. Central planning of the economy was introduced with Goering operating Soviet style 5 years plans. The Strenght through Joy movement provided holidays. It was a classic Socialist movement in its theories and intents and actiuons. Hitler and his left wing came into conflict during the Night of the Long Knives which prevented the Socialist revolution going further as Hitler need the bankers and industrialists support at that time. He needed the Krupps and the like for his war.
I doubt that you have a Phd in anything as you are just ignorant.

Hitler 'sMein Kampf has many similarities to Marxs' various rantings including the Anti Semitism that ran though the USSR and the left wing of politiucs in general.

[ThePhilosopher]

59.

4G and better will see the NBN redundant before it is even rolled out.

[ThePhilosopher]

60.

" Georgina Dear " ? " I am well off etc "

What a patronising clown.

Firstly you only use Georgina Dear as an address in an attempt to belittle woman in an overbearing and paternalistic way. You are sexist to the core Dante.

As to the other patronising guff. If you are so well off and hate us all so much here are some tips.

Go to the front page and see who this site is for. By definition your guff is not wanted.

Secondly take your bomb making skills ( if any ) and go to Afgahnistand and see how well you get on with your Taliban fellow travellers who also wish to belittle women.

Offensive Clown. Phd in stupidity with a strong strand of sexism.

[Mr T]

61.

ThePhilosopher - are you sure that you are not confusing me with Dante?

Dante was the one calling Hitler's Nationalist Socialist tyranny "right wing" - I gave the Nazis as a good example of socialist governments.

I have never claimed to have a "PhD in anything".

Could you please re-post to Dante??

[Joseph]

62.

The Philosopher is Tone Abbott, right. An illiterate, ranting buffoon with no policies only negativity.

[Mr T]

63.

Joseph - Tony Abbott - negativity???

Could you please tell me something that the Gillard-Brown government has done that is good??

[Oldman]

64.

Hitler 'sMein Kampf has many similarities to Marxs' various rantings including the Anti Semitism that ran though the USSR and the left wing of politiucs in general.

I would have though someone calling himself "The Philosopher" would at the very least be familiar with the work of Karl Marx before making an ass of himself in public. If you had taken the time to read the first chapter of Marx & Engel's Manifesto of the Communist Party you would have understood, even if you did disagreed with some of the arguments and conclusions, that Marx was extraordinarily prescient. He had the most astonishing insight into the nature and direction of capitalism considering that he was thinking and writing on the subject long before it evolved into the modern and global economic system that it is today:

(Capitalism) has been the first to show what man’s activity can bring about. It has accomplished wonders far surpassing Egyptian pyramids, Roman aqueducts, and Gothic cathedrals; it has conducted expeditions that put in the shade all former Exoduses of nations and crusades.

(Capitalism) cannot exist without constantly revolutionising the instruments of production, and thereby the means of production, and with them the whole relations of society. Constant revolutionising of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the capitalist epoch from all earlier ones. All old-established national industries have been destroyed or are daily being destroyed.

In place of the old wants, satisfied by the productions of the country, we find new wants, requiring for their satisfaction the products of distant lands and climes.

Commercial crises put on trial, each time more threateningly, the existence of the entire (capitalist) society. In these crises a great part not only of the existing products, but also of the previously created productive forces, are periodically destroyed.

The quote is not entire correct because the word "Capitalism" has been replaced for the original "the bourgeoisie" but the message is almost the same; he pays tribute to the productive capacity of capitalism, identifies and analyses the remaking of the social order to serve the interests of the capitalist class "the bourgeoisie" and identifies and identifies and analyses capitalism’s inherent tendency for crisis and cycles of boom and bust through his theory of surplus value.

While he is often, and quite rightly, seen as a critic of capitalism, he did not believe that capitalism could be replaced without a major restructuring of the existing social, political and philosophical order. In other words, he did, and could not foresee an alternative to Capitalism hegemony, not Socialism and certainly not Communism as it was practiced in the Soviet Union. One could even argue that owned a crystal ball and could see clearly into the future.

While valid criticisms can be made of what is called Karl Marx's "Political Economy, your calling Marx's work "rantings" is itself raving.

I suggest you change your nick to "The Philosopher's Toilet Paper", Karl Marx would have delighted in wiping his arse clean with anything you have to say.

[Clarence Beeks]

65.

An EXCELLENT question....