The 64th vessel of year arrived yesterday carrying 48 “asylum seekers” bringing the total number to land this year at 4047.
Immigration Department secretary Andrew Metcalfe told a parliamentary committee yesterday that the flow of boats to Australia would not slow any time soon.
Under opposition questioning, Mr. Metcalfe says 3600 asylum-seekers could arrive in Australian waters in the next six months without changes to border protection laws.
There is only one deterrent that will stop the boats. Australia should withdraw from the 1951 Convention for refugees and create a new policy that is in Australia’s interests and not the UN’s.
The Convention belongs to a bygone era. These “asylum seekers” aren’t persecuted people. A truly persecuted person wouldn’t be able to escape in the first place. Just ask anyone from Hungary when the Soviets invaded Budapest on November 4 1956. Or for that matter ask anyone who lived under the tyranny of Soviet rule in Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Czechoslovak, East Germany and Albania during the Cold War.
These were persecuted people and there was a genuine need for such a convention for refugees.
Fast forward to the early twenty-first century. The people of today aren’t persecuted anything like the people of the mid-twentieth century.
The fact that someone can easily board a flight in Karachi for Jakarta or Kuala Lumpur is proof they aren’t persecuted (that’s right, they fly into Jakarta or Kuala Lumpur and then catch a leaky boat bound for Australian residency). These so-called refugees are nothing more than opportunists who want to skip our immigration processes. They are queue jumpers. They know that so long as we are bound to the outdated convention for refugees they’ll have a high chance of being granted asylum. They know they can appeal any decision using our courts.
Besides, withdrawing from the convention wouldn’t be that politically hard. The government’s policy is to send back “asylum seekers” to non-signatory Malaysia. If the progressives are ok to send them back to a non-signatory country then it’s not too hard for Australia to withdraw our membership to stop receiving them.
The reality is a nation that can’t secure its borders can’t secure its destiny or administer its laws.
Update 1:
The 65th vessel of year arrived yesterday carrying 72 “asylum seekers” bringing the total number to land this year at 4119.
Another day another boat. In the six years before Labor loosened the border laws, we received on average one boat every four months.
Agree 100%. But there is even a greater danger with refugee's coming in the front door. Those with cultures, alternative agenda's and views they have of impossing on the oz society, even in the long term. We must take steps NOW to block conclaves, societies within societies, impossed suedo laws for conclave cutures [ Islam ] and signed documents of responsibility and if they break these agreements within 20 years [ citizens by proclamation or not ] their citizen ship is revoked [ NO appeal ] and they are deported to country of origon if not born here.
Posted by: john neeting | December 10, 2011 at 11:28 AM
More drivel from the forum egghead:
People from Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Czechoslovak, East Germany and Albania = White people = genuine refugees
People from Iraq, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka = non-white people = opportunists
How easy is it to spot the racist agenda?
Posted by: Oldman | December 10, 2011 at 12:01 PM
Glad to see you mainly put "asylum Seekers" in inverted commas. We should all avoid referring to illegal immigrants as asylum seekers. That term implies a soft and sympathetic approach, and is used continually by the likes of Greens Senator Sarah Hanson Young.
People who arrive in Australia illegaly, whether by boat or by overstaying a visa, are illegal immigrants unless, or until, they are proven to be bonafide political refugees who are subject to persecution in their homelands.
Most of them are economic refugees, not political, and who can blame them for trying it on? But every one which succeeds, makes the queue slower and longer for those going through proper channels.
Let's all get the terminology right - they are illegal immigrants.
Posted by: Pedro | December 10, 2011 at 12:22 PM
When the left get cornered on this debate, they play the only card they think they have left – the race card.
Up until now I have tolerated your condescending personal insults. No longer. Your presence here is to agitate and nothing more.
Either you pull your head in and conduct a civil debate with others (including me) or I’ll erase you.
That’s not a threat, it’s a promise.
First and last warning, Oldman. Your IP address XX.XXX.113.67 has been noted.
Andy Semple
Assistant Managing Editor
Menzies House
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 10, 2011 at 12:58 PM
Spot on Pedro. They are illegal immigrants.
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 10, 2011 at 12:59 PM
I don't give a sh*t whether they arrive by boat or plane - if they don't pass the normal channels of permanent entry they are ILLEGAL! If they deliberately overstay their visas and go into hiding they are ILLEGAL! The whites that came here didn't come with a hidden agenda to transform the host country and make endless demands - Muslims do. Islam and their followers don't seek to assimilate, they seek to REPLACE. If you don't understand the historical nature of Islam to impose it's will you are either totally clueless or willfully stupid, which is it? The radicals are on the march and we are importing them straight into the West...setting up the seeds to our own demise, and therefore the eventual destruction of Western civilization itself.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 01:00 PM
Just ban the idiot; he offers nothing of value. Every single one of his posts has just regurgitated some tired left-wing argument from the 70s. He's not relevant to todays debate and actually devalues MH.
Posted by: John Mc | December 10, 2011 at 01:01 PM
He's been warned, John Mc.
I'm sure he'll ignore my warning so you'll get your wish.
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 10, 2011 at 01:10 PM
Spot on, Bluebell.
These "asylum seekers" are nothing but illegal immigrants - queue jumpers.
The only way to fix it once and for all is for Australia to withdraw its membership from the UN convention for refugees.
problem is, no politician has the spine to do what is needed.
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 10, 2011 at 01:13 PM
p.s Our country is huge, we should welcome more people.
Not a problem - how about you put up a bakers dozen in your house! Besides, Australia is a huge country in size only. Australia is an ARID land with little water, and ancient worn out soils. Only 4% of this country is devoted to farming and your brain dead (stony BROKE) lot are allowing foreign coal seam gas firms to march on farmlands and drill at will - putting the Great Artesian Basin and the Great barrier Reef in jeopardy.
Australia doesn't have the infrastructure, nor the professionals to service rivers of people. These are built up over time with governments getting a 20 year window to prepare for new births and carefully drafted foreign intakes. You are advocating social unrest and increasing social poverty rates....all things that are now experienced by Britain and Europe already as illegals flood the continent.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 02:15 PM
and how about you stop posting as "Tom"?
Have you decided to use the name "Willie" here on in?
As for Oldfool, he's a habitual abuser of our comments policy and other people.
So don’t give me you BS spiel ok.
Like you lefties can talk - it’s the left who want to muzzle News Ltd, BoltA, Tim Blair and anyone who’s a conservative.
Yes we should welcome new people - never said we shouldn't.
But we have a serious illegal immigration problem.
The reality is a nation that can’t secure its borders can’t secure its destiny or administer its laws.
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 10, 2011 at 02:39 PM
And long live freedom of speech!!!
Posted by: Dante | December 10, 2011 at 02:52 PM
"He's not relevant to todays debate and actually devalues MH" ... that's interesting, how do you make something as irrelevant as MH relevant? What's the value of idiotic ideas as building a fence around Australia when all our future is outside that fence? Are you guys for real or is just Andy writing under various assumed names? I just wonder....
Posted by: Dante | December 10, 2011 at 02:59 PM
That is not legitimate excuse. I am currently in Europe, and travel through countires that house 50 million people plus, in a the nation the size of Queensland/NSW. Our country is so huge that I don't need to put up a 'bakers dozen' in my house, so that is ridiculious. Furthermore, i'm not a neo-liberal conservative and see it as an issue that inconveniances me.
Yesssssssss, we can see what a mess Europe is in - and I don't mean just on the financial front either.
Little watter? ancient worn out soils? Climat change expert, geologist, sociologist, you have all the answers!
Hey - that comes from some of our most learned scientists, including your temple of doom, the CSIRO.
I am not advocating any unrest, I am advocating sustainable development in our own country. People have lived in desserts since biblical times, and with more technology, it would be made easier. What is to stop expansion into the outback to accomodate more people?
Mmmmmmmm, Water? Infrastucture? Professionals? All things that we are already struggling with, even with a paltry 23 million.
We can't continue to simply expand our already stretched capital cities to the extent that we are, right?
No sh*t Sherlock......well, maybe you can whisper in Gillard's socialist ears to STOP destroying rural and regional towns - towns which are dying under her tenure.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 03:14 PM
I don't, unlike "Willie", write under assumed names.
If we are so "irrelevant" as you claim, why do you come here? How do you explain that MH gets in excess of 3,000 unique hits/views each day?
Notice how none of the known lefties who agitate here are willing to debate the “asylum seeker” issue. I have presented a solution to the problem.
The left, as usual, just toss out the race card.
It was the left who allowed the problem to flourish.
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 10, 2011 at 03:21 PM
Read this Wee Willie - even the most optimistic scientist are very very worried.
http://thetechjournal.com/science/eminent-scientist-claims-humans-will-be-extinct-in-100-years.xhtml
Btw - Immigrants won't move to rural and regional unless they are forced by government. They won't because all the services they want are in the cities and their community networks are also in the cities. Besides......there is nothing for them unless there are jobs and housing, and services to go with it. I live in a rural town with no services, not even a doctor, a chemist, hospital, nothing. No English language lessons here old boy. Better get used to expanding congested cities with illegal immigrants placing a strain on the long suffering taxpayer. The resentment is bubbling away, white hot anger, and come election time Labor is going to get one hell of a flogging at the voting booth for IGNORING the will of the people.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 03:30 PM
'Willie': Europe is not a mess.
hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha
Posted by: John Mc | December 10, 2011 at 03:51 PM
Australia has been and will continue to be a land of refugees. Some have came over land bridges ~40k years ago, others have been sent here in chain as rejects of a society that , some came to seek their fortunes, other arrived because they could no longer make a decent living for them and their family in their homeland. Then we had those that escaped tyranny and those that survived concentration camps. Later we had people form countries where Aussies had been fighting a war, and now we have people that are escaping the tyranny of regimes, wars, poverty and famine.
Andy, what is this “new policy that is in Australia’s interest”. We abandon the UNHCR and then what? What do you propose? Do we sink boats with refugees? Do we refuse to help them? Do we let them land? What about those arriving through airports? Do we shoot them on the spot or we spend money putting them on plane back to where they come from? What does it mean “we stop receiving them”? So they arrive at our shore, and then what?
And how do you think the rest of the World, our trading partners, will react to our actions? I can just see headlines across the World all praising our new wonderful solution while they try to house weekly what Australia receives in 1 year. Have you ever heard of Lampedusa?
You have a myopic view of a modern-day problems. Your solution “belongs to a bygone era” where a country was isolated and could do almost as it pleased. It is not possible to build a fence around Australia. Only by eliminating ruthless regimes, whatever their colour, and by including other countries to share our values, principles and prosperity we can stem a flood of oppressed people wanting to better themselves, be it intellectually (i.e. free from oppressions, tortures, threats) or economically. History is full of events of desperate people doing desperate acts. It’s the pendulum effect. Extreme swings in one direction (Russia pre Stalin) result in extreme swings in the opposite direction (Russia post Tsar). For this single reason we need to be very careful with simplistic solutions to complex problems. A total of 147 countries subscribe to the UN Convention for refugees (i.e. the initial one promulgated in 1951 and amended in 1967) and not a single one has dropped out in order to fix the refugee problem.
The plain fact is that Australia has ALWAYS gained from each wave of refugees. My next door is an Iraqi refugee, he is a very hard worker, in a few years he is purchasing his house, has 2 wonderful boys, he keeps his religion to himself, he is the best neighbour I ever had in the past 42 years living in Australia. Australia spent no money educating him, he has a degree in engineering and he is making considerable more contribution to this country that the crap you write!
What you hard-hitters on the Right see as a ‘problem’ is in fact a wonderful opportunity to add value to Australia. All statistics show that refugees and migrants are the most law abiding citizens in this country. Yes, there are some bad apples but not as many as those within the white anglosaxon society. I loved and laughed my head off at one of the suggestion here that Australia should impose a ’20-year’ probation on refugees. I agree, as long as we have the same probation period for everybody and in 20 years refugees could be the only ones left here.
Posted by: Dante | December 10, 2011 at 03:59 PM
Your race baiting won't work - we have never said that immigrants are not welcome. We are merely advocating the wisdom of bringing in so many so fast, and putting more thought into the religious mix, and preparing for the cultural problems they will bring to the country. Our deliberate non attention to this area will mean serious social unrest along the same lines as those in France, England and Germany.....where they now have religious and cultural enclaves in which the authorities and police no longer have control.
I predict that within 50 years genocide will make a return to Europe. Look back on Islamic history and their track record - nothing flourishes under the feet of advancing Islamism - and that is the legacy that you socialists bastards have given to your children.
Nothing but nothing could excuse the horrific mass murder committed by Anders Breivik in Norway on July 22 that left 92 people dead. But his core beliefs that mass muslim immigration to Western Europe, enabled by Cultural Communist elites who want to destroy Western civilization and capitalism, European traditions, patriotism and Christianity, is shared by millions of people suffering under the scourge of multi-culturalism.
His words will prove prophetic in more ways than one.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 04:04 PM
Don't warn, just do it idiot!
Posted by: Oldman | December 10, 2011 at 04:04 PM
Comment Removed: Sock Puppet
Posted by: Comrad | December 10, 2011 at 04:06 PM
New Zealand doesn't seem to have a problem with saying NO to illegal immigrants....but of course they (unlike us) grew some after the last election! Illegals have been TOLD by New Zealand they are NOT welcome.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 04:09 PM
Comment Removed: Sock Puppet
Posted by: Willie | December 10, 2011 at 04:11 PM
Read this fools - not condoning what the guy did, but he is right on the money. Of course the socialist gnomes in Europe are trying to paint him as a crazy loon. He's far from crazy, he knew exactly what he was doing, and why he did it. There will be more of him as the Muslim tide rises across Europe and England too.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/robbins-report/2011/jul/23/oslo-terrorist-his-own-words/
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 04:18 PM
By by delude one....:-) don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 04:19 PM
"Comrad" aka "Willie" aka "Tom" are one and the same
Ip address 77.105.205.137
Breach of the MH comments policy:
Use of sock puppets
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 10, 2011 at 04:43 PM
Interesting, after Abbott's nadir was reached during the very entertaining Slipper coup and all his huff n puff ill blow your house down waste of oxygen during the previous year achieved the warranted zilch it deserved, he is today harping again on refugees, border hysteria etc. Interesting this post follows suit.
This is a cyclical tactic aimed at the "Herald Sun" mentality sobering up after last night's piss up, and how ho hum.
Read all the national papers today read the achievements of the present gov. and their infrastructure building successes. The New Year will see further advances by the time Abbott's compliant press hounds and shock jocks are muzzled and as next year rolls by people will begin to see the long term benefits and sense of Labor reform as they have in the decades before. There will be no return to Howard's grossly wasteful and inhumane Naura solution, this cannot and never will happen, even in the unikely event of a LNP minority gov.
Posted by: james hughes | December 10, 2011 at 05:16 PM
Only 2 more years and then it'll stop. The Labor/Green alliance has done generational damage and we won't be seeing them again for 10 years or so.
Much as the current illegal immigrant problem annoys and offends most people, it's a small price to pay as it is destroying old, core Labor support. I wouldnt be surprised if Labor suffer the total defeat the Canadian left suffered last election. Working people are sick to death of the Socialist agenda and their days are numbered.
Posted by: Snuffy | December 10, 2011 at 05:25 PM
There will be no return to Howard's grossly wasteful and inhumane Naura solution, this cannot and never will happen,
WOW - that's a tad rich when you consider the gross blowout of your current regime, and the untold dozens of deaths at sea as a direct result of Labors inability to deal with people smugglers, and tell Indonesia to stop with their well crafted mind games. Labor needs to grow some instead of fawning over the biggest Muslim nation in Asia. A country that teaches their kids that Australia is Muslim territory. Indonesia is pulling your chain and laughing their heads off. Stupid hand-wringing socialist Aussies....
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 05:37 PM
Why is it on both sides of the arguement it is all emotional and little evidence of pragmatism or view of reality.
The easiest way to stop it is just apply a blanket ban on any person who reaches Australia by boat or plane and stays illegally ever having the chance of settlement here. Why not pay other countries to take them. If they are muslim send them to Indonesia. If they are christian send them to Philippines. In other words let them stay in a poor country to eliminate economic refugees or those who want to improve there middle class status by travelling to a rich country. It is wrong to call these people queue jumpers as it is our government who approves of this particular queue. So the fact some choose this method is nothing out of the ordinary. The other thing about risking lives on boats that is not significant either there are many Australian's especially younger people who do exactly that in cars and that is for fun. Saying these people are a particular risk regarding security is also not in evidence. Probably no more risk than legal immigrants from that particular country.
It is actually possible that accepting middle class refugees is detrimental to their country of origin as it just leads to less skilled people in the country.
There are around 1 billion people living on about $1.25 per day and are considered hungry which is understandable. It is these billion people we should show concern for which in my opinion means looking at the populations of various countries who are not able to support themselves with food and trying to open up free trade, provide education and womens equality to try to reduce the problem. These people have very little concern about freedoms they just want food for tomorrow. http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world%20hunger%20facts%202002.htm
Posted by: kelly liddle | December 10, 2011 at 05:41 PM
Andy, bravo on your article and a double bravo for censuring the scurrilous "Oldman."
His weak and stupid attempt at racism flies in the face of history which he should study, maybe then he may be a little better informed. As it stands, he is just plain ignorant in both senses of the word.
We should get out of the 1951 convention - in fact, we should get out of the UN altogether. It is a self-serving body which does nobody much good except itself, of course.
The Howard government created good policy and enforced it, thus stopping these illegals in there tracks.
The current mob haven't the brains to keep a country loo in paper let alone solve the illegal immigrant problem they have created by being so damn smart.
Posted by: ibbit | December 10, 2011 at 05:46 PM
An escapee from some alternative reality, I suspect.
Posted by: ibbit | December 10, 2011 at 05:51 PM
Smart arse. Censured you deserve to be.
Posted by: ibbit | December 10, 2011 at 05:54 PM
Fine - let's open the floodgates, and see what happens. This planet is on a rapid downhill run and only has 100 plus years left anyway. Put simply we are now devouring the planet with the third world breeding like rats. The first world is addressing their birth rates....the third worlders are not, and THEY are the ones that cannot afford to feed their own. These people do not have the same values as us when it comes to being RESPONSIBLE for the lives they bring into the world. In the words of one African woman: If I lose some of my children to starvation, I will have more. They are my safety net in old age. The West is a beacon for the elite people in those countries because we (other many centuries) have built stable prosperous societies.....not for much longer if the UN has it's way. Andy is right.........the West should extract itself from the corrupt UN and slam the gates to those that want to sink us.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 06:14 PM
Take a GOOD look.....because humanity is set to implode as the fight for food, water, and resources escalates into disputes and wars.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Population_curve.svg
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 06:18 PM
I knew you'd continue with your abuse.
Good bye Oldfool....
Posted by: Account Deleted | December 10, 2011 at 07:22 PM
I gave him a last chance but I knew he would blow it.
Posted by: Account Deleted | December 10, 2011 at 07:26 PM
If you read my post and thought about it a bit I am in no way advocating immigration. Rather that if money is to be spent as we do in a small way on foreign developement compared to our current refugee policy that is a good thing. This http://www.ausaid.gov.au/country/indonesia.cfm is money well spent. My personal opinion about immigration is that it should be done with a ballot and should also include exactly what we want. If we basically remove a skilled person from a developing country we should pay to replace them so that that country is no worse off and more middle class means less population explosion as a rule. So I am not advocating bring in the poor instead but that we should spend money on usefull programs overseas if we actually want to help others along with trade and investment. Private investment in a developing country in my opinion is far better than most aid as it provides real jobs and increase in living standard. A million dollars will help a lot of people if spent correctly and the billions we are spending on our current refugee policy is stupid and helps virtually nobody at extreme cost. So my idea is to reduce population pressures in some areas and poverty through sensible policy.
Posted by: kelly liddle | December 10, 2011 at 07:38 PM
Bluebell stay in Europe spare us your imbecilic simplistic harping; your just a poor old pensioner spose you couldnt afford the ticket back anyway. how can you who cries poor afford to be there? what are you doing? who are you? Are you a member of an extremist group plotting with other extremist groups in Europe to terrorize our country? Are you visiting Norway? I want Howard back. I want to inhumanely abuse war torn refugees at government expense to keep my poll ratings high. There are thousands who agree with me. We are right.
Howard's Naura solution cost the country #$@#$ billions for no result at all absolutely. Stay in Europe, maybe there you will learn about global patterns of refugee transfer and see how absolutely small our so called problem really is.
Posted by: james hughes | December 10, 2011 at 08:32 PM
ibbit a closet troll of the Sydney institute with no perception of Australian society outside his tunnel vision of reality I suspect? What is an alternative reality? I have no idea what you are babbling about Ibbit what sort of name is that any way? Gerald Henderson would be better if you must cover yourself in smoke and mirrors.
Posted by: james hughes | December 10, 2011 at 08:37 PM
Firstly you ignorant sod, I am not a pensioner. Just because I draw an allocated pension of a mere $36,000 a year, it does not make me poor. We CHOSE to live on that amount hoping to fund our own old age, future nursing home fees and yes, leave a fair amount to the children be bore. It's called...........f*cking RESPONSIBILITY. We don't want to be a burden on those coming up behind us. Also I don't have to see Europe. I have plenty of relations and friends who fill me in on what is happening first hand. I have also been to Pakistan, mainly in a large regional city called Pakpatten. But have also been to Lahore, and Islamabad.
As for John Howard, his Nauru solution stopped the boats virtually stone dead. His pacific solution cost a mere fraction of what your socialist clowns have been spending.....try billions. Destroyed facilities, millions on refugee lawyers sucking off the public purse and yes, let's not forget the 4 star rolled gold treatment given to these ECONOMIC 'refugees'. Let's include a million dollar tobacco allowance, million dollar phone bills and provided laptops, TV's and every other convenience that ordinary Australians have to sweat and pay for. If you are in Europe, stay there! We don't want more of you slobbering hand wringing lefty idiots back in the country - god knows we have enough of you. Oh and btw - as for belonging to an extremist group. Be careful what you wish for, because those groups are growing.....all because you lefty idiots are ignoring the calls to stop willfully importing a Trojan horse that will end badly. Unfortunately history will prove people like Anders right.
Genocide will make a comeback to that sorry continent.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 09:04 PM
Kelly - I have always been supportive of bringing in talented third world students into the West and educating them to the same standards as our own student graduates. The problem is that our governments give these students visas and the vast majority DON'T go back to improve their own countries. That is what the Colombo Plan was all originally about in the early days. Bringing in and sending back students to make the lives of their own people better. My daughter used to mark the University exam papers of many of these students and guess what? Most were NOT up to the standard of passing because of extremely poor language skills. Many papers were illegible, had poor content and were poorly constructed....yet these kids were given passes. She complained and got told to shut up and pass them. The system inside our universities is corrupt because they need the high paying foreign students to survive. Then there is the visa rackets and false marriages that goes on. All swept under the carpet by corrupt officials inside the immigration department. Let's be clear, immigration and refugee programs are rackets run by people that stand to make personal gains. It's not just this country, is the same in Britain and the USA.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 09:17 PM
Also, yes, Europe does have a serious illegal refugee problem.....we don't have to follow suit!!!
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 09:26 PM
wrong Bluebell Howard's solution did not cost less than the present measures. Get ir right or dont post or stick with 2GB. Be careful of white slavers in Europe you never know where you may end up.
Posted by: james hughes | December 10, 2011 at 09:31 PM
BTW Bluebell you are definitely not an 'ordinary Australian' please stop inflicting your over inflated sense of identity and perceived loss on us who are. and stop crying poor re your own admissions. cheee...!
Posted by: james hughes | December 10, 2011 at 09:34 PM
Yep
Posted by: kelly liddle | December 10, 2011 at 09:36 PM
and why doesnt it surprize me that you think Anders was right. You really should be totally investigated
"Oh and btw - as for belonging to an extremist group. Be careful what you wish for, because those groups are growing.....all because you lefty idiots are ignoring the calls to stop willfully importing a Trojan horse that will end badly. Unfortunately history will prove people like Anders right.
Genocide will make a comeback to that sorry continent."
Fortunately there are a mere handful of rabid dangerous fools like yourself in our country. I am here now, born here and will remain here and see this country develop into the great nation it is destined to be. Be ready for that or go find yourself a hole in some European neo-fascist hole where you belong.
Posted by: james hughes | December 10, 2011 at 09:45 PM
[wrong Bluebell Howard's solution did not cost less than the present measures.]
Figures please..
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 09:47 PM
Unfortunately Anders will be proved correct - it gives me no joy to say that, but genocide will make a return to Europe as Islam rises to take the place of Judeo-Christian culture.
It's time for you socialist engineers to admit what you have done - we know under this Labor government they plan to do the same to Australia.
http://the-salfordian.com/more-than-three-million-migrants-flood-into-britain-under-labour/
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 09:58 PM
Fortunately there are a mere handful of rabid dangerous fools like yourself in our country. I am here now, born here and will remain here and see this country develop into the great nation it is destined to be. Be ready for that or go find yourself a hole in some European neo-fascist hole where you belong.
I am right here in Australia fool - and I my family have probably been here longer than yours! Try the First Fleet.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 09:59 PM
get stuffed. one minute in Europe the next here like a time traveller at will. Backing murderous right wing fascist then dodging and weaving and claiming some elite purchase on true Australian Identity - what a screaming joke. Ill show you the register if you like with all my relatives- marine privates probably not low lifes likeyours; probably flogged the backs off them as they deserved. First Fleeters all and one so dont come that concoted legitimation BS with me smart arse.
You arrogate to yourself the voice of ordinary Australians and as if you are the only one. Ill tell you that people like you are a rabid minority in this country and any way your blinkin pedigree crim ancestors were boat people to start with. Understand history, pay your tax, eat your sardines and be happy. But please spare us your deranged perceptions of politics: you absolutely dont know what you are talking about and are but a mere pawn for political manipulators and demagogues who rise to power because of ignoramuses like your self.
Posted by: james hughes | December 10, 2011 at 10:08 PM
Oh dear - looks like your medications have worn off. Never mind.....here's my pedigree. Oh, and I have proof of that pedigree as a fully paid up member of The First Fleeters Association in Sydney which demands documentary proof.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tjbatey/piper.html
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 10:55 PM
I never stated that I was the only one, and I also never stated that I have ever been to Europe. For God's sake - read my posts before having a convulsive fit! I still stand my arguments that we will rue the day of importing Muslims at the rate we are - our kids and theirs are going to pay a heavy price down the road. That's not racist, that's just a fact. Islam is religion that houses many races, including whites....and yes, I do know what I am talking about. But you keep to the socialist script of appeasement. I am sure they will eat you lot last.
Posted by: bluebell | December 10, 2011 at 11:01 PM
You know, Oldman your argument sounds like a case of mine's bigger than yours, schoolyard stuff.
Seems to me what really matters is the quality of the posts, not the number, although numbers testify to interest in a point of view which may be agreed with, or maybe provide something to think about. Numerous comments such as yours and james hughes' do not add anything of worth to any discussion.
And there is little point in putting forward the majority viewpoint because you two just look facts in the face and try to scream them down, or, alternatively, abuse the poster.
Even the verbose, not always sensible Dante is worth reading, whereas you two definetly are not. Dante at least tries to support his argument, to put forward his perceptions which he is quite entitled to do. He loses things a bit when others fail to agree and he begins a bit of browbeating. Doesn't work.
Europe does have a problem with illegal immigrants and growing social problems as a consequence. I see no reason Australia should store up the same trouble for ouselves to face in the future.
As for Howard's solution to illegal immigrants, it worked. The money was WELL spent because it worked.I would not believe for a minute any figures put out by this government about anything, let alone the burning hot issue of illegal immigration.
Anyway, doesn't much matter what you and james think, you are outnumbered many times over i.e. polling shows the majority of the population, including earlier immigrants, loathe the fact that illegal immigrants force themselves on Australia.
Posted by: ibbit | December 11, 2011 at 09:36 AM
james hughes at 41.
Yes, definelty from an alternative reality.
Posted by: ibbit | December 11, 2011 at 09:38 AM
I have sympathy for your opinion Andy and agree largely with what you say.
I would dearly love to see our political leaders reach a consensus on how to deal with illegal immigration but sadly BOTH sides are so deeply entrenched with their positions and (political) hatred of each other that hell will freeze over before any such consensus is reached.
I agree (god forbid) with Labor's call to increase the number of refugees, but it is doomed without an orderly system to underpin our refugee immigration program. (And for the record I believe that the vast majority of boat people are economic opportunists).
If the Gillard Govt was half smart it would re-instate the Nauru solution in full, including TPV's, so as it can then prove, once & for all, the it (Nauru) did not work as is repeatedly claimed by the Rudd/ Brown/Gillard Govt.
Having then proved that that (Nauru) is the case then Abbot & Co would be forced to sit down and talk.
What is the worse thing that could happen?.......Nauru could turn out to be a success again and the boats will stop, people will stop dying and people smugglers will go out of business thus returning integrity to our immigration and refugee program.
Is that so bad?
Posted by: Grantley | December 11, 2011 at 10:39 AM
There are some problems regarding your ideas. If you read UNHCR definition of what a refugee is then you will realise that all you have to do is come from a country of conflict and say that you are scared to live there due to discrimination etc. The way our immigration policy works to remove people who do not fear that is by leaving them in a jail for a bit to see if they change there mind. This is not really the best in my opinion.
As the ALP has currently proven they are as much war mongers as Obama Australia being an extension of US foreign policy with a recently announced new joint facility (base) is not going to change.
The only hope to change this is if Ron Paul becomes US president. http://www.youtube.com/ronpaul#p/u/31/EIAVKUqeuQw
Posted by: kelly liddle | December 11, 2011 at 11:10 AM
Good post, Grantley.
I particularly agree with your second and third paras. Some things should not be used as political footballs - and border security, immigration/refugee policiy are just one of the issues which should be bipartisan.
I agree we should raise our huminatarian refugee intake, and I agree to do this we would need secure border policy and policing.
It might also make sense for the foreign affairs minister of whatever the gov. might be, to seriously attempt to get the UN to speed up processing in refugee camps.
There should also be agreement to take back into camps those who enter Australia illegaly.
This would be a small measure of justice to those who have to wait even longer for a country of refuge due to illegal entry by those who claim to be refugees as opposed to what most really are, "economic refugees."
There would be some morality in Gillard/Brown expressing compassion for the plight of those in camps instead of endlessly bleating about the "poor" downtrodden people who pay to get into Australia illegally.
Nauru, in spite of what the two PM'S say, was a success and I get very tired of the halftruths and deliberate mistruths told about
Nauru for political purposes.
Labor, whether it likes it or not, has a responsibility to the majority of Australians who are angered by illegal boat people, to secure our borders and stop playing politics with the future of the country in the sense of potential social disruption such as faced in UK and other EU countries due to illegal immigration.
But Labor is long on stupidity and short on commonsense so I won't hold my breath waiting for them to act responsibily in this regard.
Posted by: ibbit | December 11, 2011 at 12:32 PM
I agree, Grantley.
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 11, 2011 at 12:46 PM
The person known as "Oldman" is persona non grata.
All comments posted by "Oldman" will be deleted.
Andy Semple
Assistant Managing Editor
MH
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 11, 2011 at 01:42 PM
It must be made clear to any immigrant coming into this country as a permanent citizen they must obey Australian Law. No if's, buts, or maybe's. That means no Shariah Law. No enclaves, no special treatment based on religion, it must be made clear that Australia is a secular country that protects all religions. Those attempting to subvert the Australian way of life should be deported, and if Australian born, jailed, no matter who they are. Most immigrants coming to this country make an effort to settle in well and make no demands.....it would seem those who are members of the 'religion of peace' have a problem with this concept. One has to wonder why that is.
Posted by: bluebell | December 11, 2011 at 05:28 PM
And what happens when illegals arrive in NZ?? Putting them in prison as they arrive doesn't seem a 'welcome' gesture to me. And let's be honest, have you seen how distant is Xmas Island to Indonesia and Australia? And how far is NZ from the rest of the World? I'm sure if we didn't have Xmas Island as an Australian territory we wouldn't see many boat people.
Andy's description of the MO of these boat people is very difficult to be believed (in fact anything Andy says is difficult to believe, but that's another issue!). Apparently these queue jumpers are so stupid that they take a plane to Jakarta paying just few hundreds of $ to then pay thousands of $ to risk their lives coming to Australia on a leaking boat. Are they adventurers? Why not take a plane directly to Sydney?
Unfortunately the situation is much more complex. You need to talk to some of these refugees to appreciate what they had to go through in order to come to Australia. Those that are not true refugees are sent home, why was this ignored by Andy? The refugees that settle here are the most dedicated and most hard working people we can get. They haven't arrived on a 10-pound ticket or in chain, they want to be here, and they work their butt out to make it good for them and their family. Oh, yes, they may wear funny clothes, have strange habits and stand out in a crowd, just a jews still do in the leafy Eastern suburbs, and Italians in Little Italy, and Vietnamese in vietnamata but given them time and in a couple of generations they'll be more aussie than you.
Tolerance and empathy goes a long way in understanding this complex problem. Please have another look at that SBS series Go Back Where You Came From and walk a few steps in the refugees' shoes, I'm sure you'll find enlightening!
Posted by: Dante | December 11, 2011 at 06:21 PM
Andy, I don't write under assumed name either. I've debated your policy and you failed to tell me what you will actually do, in real terms, not just words.
My comments contained several questions for you to answer, I haven't seen any answer from you. I suspect you don't have any because your simplistic is just that 'a simple idea without any real action'.
I visit and make comments on this site for 2 reasons: (1) to debate some of the silly ideas written by you, your MH collaborators and other commentators, and (2)because I hope to show to some of your readers that there is a much better ways to resolve issues than the head-kicking, right wing ideologies advocated on this site.
Posted by: Dante | December 11, 2011 at 06:36 PM
"and make no demands", gee, I didn't know that us migrants have no right to make demand ... can we demand respect or is that too much to ask the 'born to rule Aussie class you belong to'. Please accept my deepest apologies, on occasions I have made demands, I foolishly believed that I had equal rights, how stupid of me. Please don't deport me ... please, I'll be good with my tail between my legs ... pleaseeeeeee, from now on I'll say 'yes' to whatever you want and I won't demand anything, promise!!
Posted by: Dante | December 11, 2011 at 06:46 PM
Everybody who lives in this country has their story Dante - my family is no exception as they struggled to survive the First Fleet, then faced starvation. If the second fleet had not arrived they would have. Most Australians try to be decent and are accepting of those who come here through the normal channels. We cannot save the world, we cannot help everybody, we cannot take more than we can handle. Get it in your thick lefty brain that you risk social unrest and pent up resentment if you bring people in faster than we can absorb. So they wear funny clothes, so what? They (in many cases) are not white. Who gives a cracker. All we ask of any immigrant is that they show their gratitude by not causing trouble and trying their best to fit in. Is that asking to much?
[They haven't arrived on a 10-pound ticket or in chain, they want to be here, and they work their butt out to make it good for them and their family.]
What's this supposed to mean? Oh, I get it. If you were a 10 pound white Brit, or a descendant of a convict you don't deserve to be here. Don't work your butt off and make it good for their families. You seriously have a problem with white folk don't you Dante.
I on the other hand have a problem with a particular religion that is committed to turning Australia little little Mecca.....so I guess that makes us even!
Posted by: bluebell | December 11, 2011 at 07:34 PM
[and make no demands", gee, I didn't know that us migrants have no right to make demand ... can we demand respect or is that too much to ask the 'born to rule Aussie class you belong to'. Please accept my deepest apologies, on occasions I have made demands, I foolishly believed that I had equal rights, how stupid of me. Please don't deport me ... please, I'll be good with my tail between my legs ... pleaseeeeeee, from now on I'll say 'yes' to whatever you want and I won't demand anything, promise!!]
Fit in or f*ck off.
Sounds fair to me......Peter Costello had no problems telling misfit Muslims the same message.
Posted by: bluebell | December 11, 2011 at 07:36 PM
Where do the vast numbers of ignorant australian bogans f*ck off to bluebell?
Many of those don't "fit in". And they're "true blue" aussies. You know the mentality- the ones who wear australian flags as capes and throw stubbies and cans at ambulance workers. (cronulla riots)
Posted by: captain catholic | December 11, 2011 at 08:02 PM
Wouldn't have happened only the Muslim thugs kept raping white Aussie girls and bashing life guards at the beach. For some strange reason these Muslim thugs think they own the beach, can call 10 year old girls wearing beach wear 'sluts', and wage a 10 year campaign of terror in surrounding non Muslim neighborhoods. Read this for starters:
http://www.australian-news.com.au/Tim_Priest.htm
No word from you of the vile Muslim revenge attacks on innocent people - including the stabbing of a couple minding their own business and threatening the male that they would rape his female companion. We should have shipped the vermin back to Lebanon where they were well known for butchering Lebanese Christians. But hey, why am I not surprised, it's the lefty way.
Posted by: bluebell | December 11, 2011 at 08:26 PM
I post my opinion. People are welcome to comment. I however do not have to answer people's comments, including yours. So get off your high horse.
I'm sure our readers can make up their own minds too.
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 11, 2011 at 08:56 PM
Care to repudiate bluebell's comments about Anders Behring Breivik being right, Andy? You've previously argued that moderate Muslims need to do more to disavow the actions of fundamentalist terrorists. Seems only fair that you should speak out against a conservative, Christian, Islamophobic terrorist who killed 77 people in the name of your ideology only this year.
Posted by: liberal elitist | December 12, 2011 at 04:04 AM
I believe that all those asylum seekers let out into the community should be settled in the Australian Capital Territory and Jervis Bay Territory! ;-)
Posted by: Col. of Blackburn | December 12, 2011 at 07:21 AM
Read comment 69
Same goes for you too.
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 12, 2011 at 08:29 AM
Two points on that
1. Bugger off, I live in Canberra lol
2. They would hvae trouble getting a job since the pubes is biggest employer (need to be an Australian citizen to join and also need a security check.
Posted by: Richo | December 12, 2011 at 09:59 AM
Well said Andy-every second post that wanker Oldman reverts to the old racist card in lieu of a reasonable debate. It's a horrible slur with no basis in fact.Wonder what his new blog name will be?
Posted by: kraka | December 12, 2011 at 11:57 AM
"Howard's solution did not cost less than the present measures". I dispute that-easy to say when you don't have to prove it. Links to facts & figures please and of course your sources so we can check em.
Posted by: kraka | December 12, 2011 at 12:28 PM
His IP address has been noted so should he come back under another name he/it will be deleted.
Posted by: Andy Semple | December 12, 2011 at 02:13 PM
I come to this site, I suppose because of a morbid curiosity. Maybe a longing to relate, but alas this will never happen. A serious illegal immigration problem (I should have a link here with illegal immigration numbers compared, but I can't be stuffed)?, get serious. It's funny how the mantra gets repeated, without being confronted.
Posted by: Shane Fisher | December 12, 2011 at 05:12 PM
None of us condone what Anders Behring Breivik did you fool - only that he is unfortunately right when he states the bloody obvious. Europe will fall to Islam within 40-50 years...and it won't be peaceful. Genocide will make an unwelcome return to that sorry continent as the battle for religious survival of the Judeo-Christian world begins. Islam does not seek tolerance, they seek to replace....and that is exactly what will happen as Muslim birth rates and immigrant numbers swell to dangerous levels. We have already seen the behavior of Islam when it comes to ethnic cleansing of Christians and Jews. The Europeans will probably be next within 40 plus years....with the Brits putting up a fight for the every survival of their culture.
Posted by: bluebell | December 12, 2011 at 07:11 PM
I suppose stating the obvious = the massacre ofd 77 innocents in cold dispassionate murder bluebell.
condemn the act of insane butchery or obviously be interpreted as a cpndoner despite what you say. as I said earlier its the likes of you who should be thoroughly investigated in this country as an extremist agitator open to perpetrating violence on our own community. the people Breivik killed were not Muslim yet you seem to hold them responsible for what happened as they were not anti- Muslim like your self. a very dangerous argument full of open, alarming, possibilities.
Posted by: james hughes | December 12, 2011 at 11:05 PM
I will not respond to anything posted by kraka whose attitudes are loathsome. do the work yourself, the figures are available. prove me wrong if you care.
Posted by: james hughes | December 12, 2011 at 11:07 PM
Despite your sanctimonious protestations I will be proved right.....as lined out in Samuel Huntington's 'Clash of Civilizations' in which he warned of the same scenario facing Europe and indeed the entire West. We are importing a Trojan horse that will one day bring death and destruction on a scale not seen since WW2.
Winston Churchill knew full well the true face of Islam:
'How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome'.
His words will become prophetic as Islam spreads throughout the West and the heart of Judeo-Christian Europe itself.
As for your threats of investigation people such as myself - at least I am not prepared to betray my own people, culture & religion hoping that the bloody warriors of Islam will eat me last. There is a term for people like you: Quisling comes to mind.
Posted by: bluebell | December 12, 2011 at 11:37 PM
yeah yeah James-typical lefty-fingers in ears and say nyah nyah nyah nyah when someone disagrees. My attitude may be loathsome but it is better then being an ignorant fool who believes in his own moral superiority. Howard's policies did not cost more-I'll wager london to a brick to you are taking 12 years worth of numbers and comparing against 4. How about comparing the cost of Howards numbers over his last 4 years to the last 4 years of this government.You won't link to your proof and sources because you know you will be found out to be cherry picking and deceitful.
Posted by: kraka | December 13, 2011 at 09:43 AM